Inkscape 0.92 review in German

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Inkscape 0.92 review in German

Christoph Schäfer
Hi guys,



I've published a review of Inkscape 0.92 in the Swiss "Publisher" magazine (http://publisher.ch/fachzeitschrift_detail.php?t=Zwischen%2Ballen%2BSt%25C3%25BChlen&read_article=9733&t=Zwischen%20allen%20St%C3%BChlen). While I did my best to highlight the major improvements, the overall judgement was: "half-baked" and largely negative.

I'm sorry for that, but I hope you get your act together soon. And please add adequate PDF export for print workflows and also make sure that Inkscape SVGs can be used and displayed universally. This is more important than new design features, because Inkscape is already one of the most feature-rich vector programmes.



Best,
Christoph

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Re: Inkscape 0.92 review in German

Alexandre Prokoudine
On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 11:43 AM, "Christoph Schäfer" wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> I've published a review of Inkscape 0.92 in the Swiss "Publisher" magazine (http://publisher.ch/fachzeitschrift_detail.php?t=Zwischen%2Ballen%2BSt%25C3%25BChlen&read_article=9733&t=Zwischen%20allen%20St%C3%BChlen). While I did my best to highlight the major improvements, the overall judgement was: "half-baked" and largely negative.

As someone who isn't much affiliated with Inkscape, but who cares
about the quality of press coverage on free software, I have to say
that I'm extremely disappointed with your article. It lacks essential
research, and it lacks it badly.

Please do your homework the next time.

Alex

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Re: Inkscape 0.92 review in German

Christoph Schäfer
Would you mind being specific?

> Gesendet: Dienstag, 14. Februar 2017 um 10:09 Uhr
> Von: "Alexandre Prokoudine" <[hidden email]>
> An: "Inkscape Devel List" <[hidden email]>
> Betreff: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Inkscape 0.92 review in German
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 11:43 AM, "Christoph Schäfer" wrote:
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > I've published a review of Inkscape 0.92 in the Swiss "Publisher" magazine (http://publisher.ch/fachzeitschrift_detail.php?t=Zwischen%2Ballen%2BSt%25C3%25BChlen&read_article=9733&t=Zwischen%20allen%20St%C3%BChlen). While I did my best to highlight the major improvements, the overall judgement was: "half-baked" and largely negative.
>
> As someone who isn't much affiliated with Inkscape, but who cares
> about the quality of press coverage on free software, I have to say
> that I'm extremely disappointed with your article. It lacks essential
> research, and it lacks it badly.
>
> Please do your homework the next time.
>
> Alex
>
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Re: Inkscape 0.92 review in German

Alexandre Prokoudine
On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 12:18 PM, "Christoph Schäfer" wrote:

> Would you mind being specific?

1. "Inkscape erweist sich als extrem leistungsfähig und bietet
erstaunliche Funktionen, die man in der kommerziellen Konkurrenz
vergeblich suchen wird, nicht zuletzt, weil sie patentiert sind und
nur in Open-Source-Projekten ohne Lizenzgebühren eingesetzt werden
dürfen."

What Inkscape features are patented in proprietary software?

2. "unerwartete Probleme unter Windows und Mac OS X je nach
Upgrade-Status nicht auszuschliessen waren."

Expect the unexpected?

3. "Ansonsten bleibt Inkscape-Interessenten unter Linux und OS X
derzeit nur das Kompilieren von Hand, was angesichts der unzähligen
Abhängigkeiten schnell zu einem Albtraum werden kann."

'sudo apt-get build-dep inkscape' takes care about most of them.

4. "Ebenso zu begrüssen wäre die Anpassung an die CSS3-Konventionen,
wenn die Entwickler diese nicht so sorglos durchgeführt hätten.
Inkscape 0.92 führt attraktive SVG-Elemente in der Hoffnung ein, dass
sie dereinst in den SVG-Standard übernommen werden, tut dies aber ohne
jede Garantie. Es werden ausserdem CSS3-Elemente eingeführt, von denen
die Entwickler genau wissen, dass sie derzeit von keinem Browser
unterstützt werden."

How much do you _actually_ know about the situation with SVG2? In
particular, how much do you know about the rule where features need a
few implementaton instances before they can make it to the standard?

Hint: http://libregraphicsworld.org/blog/entry/is-svg-2-really-on-life-support

5. "Inkscape 0.92 bietet erfreulicherweise eine längst überfällige
Funktion, nämlich die Darstellung des Dokuments in einem Objektbaum.

The XML Editor in Inkscape has been providing that feature for years.
The Objects dialog is just an easier UI for end-users.

6. "die Entwickler ignorieren noch immer die Anforderungen des Druckgewerbes"

Developers don't ignore that. It's in the roadmap. You of all the
people should know what limitations Cairo imposes on software with
regards to CMYK and spot colors.

7. "Es bleibt schleierhaft, was sich die Inkscape-Entwickler mit
dieser Veröffentlichung gedacht haben, die kaum jemandem, der
professionell mit Vektorgrafiken arbeitet, wirklich nutzt."

Yeah, if "professional use of vector graphics" == "CMYK exporting",
then you are right. Except it's not.

8. "Angesichts dieser enttäuschenden Veröffentlichung steht zu hoffen,
dass das Inkscape-Team sich in der nächsten Version anstatt auf neuen
Feature-Zauber endlich auf die verlässliche Ausgabe für verschiedene
Medien, inklusive PDF/X, besinnt."

The roadmap is open for everyone. You are welcome to study it.

http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Roadmap#Inkscape_0.93_.7E_Maintenance_and_Optimization_Focus

In my experience, Inkscape developers are quite open to answering
questions from the press and doing fact-checking. I encourage you to
make use of that in your future endeavors.

Alex

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Re: Inkscape 0.92 review in German

Martin Owens-2
In reply to this post by Christoph Schäfer
On Tue, 2017-02-14 at 09:43 +0100,
> And please add adequate PDF export for print workflows and also make
> sure that Inkscape SVGs can be used and displayed universally.

Please do add an invitation to readers to become involved in the
project. In small or large ways. 

"adequate PDF" is middelingly subjective and requires a lot of
productivity. I don't presently know of anyone actively working on the
aspect for Inkscape 0.93 so it's likely to not improve.

As for SVG universality. Usually Inkscape supports features well before
viewers do, you'll have to ask the browsers and other svg programs to
improve their rendering. (except for perhaps text flows, our bad)

Regards, Martin Owens
User Involvement Nag

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Re: Inkscape 0.92 review in German

Christoph Schäfer
In reply to this post by Alexandre Prokoudine
You got some things completely wrong, as usual. Perhaps you should try to read texts carefully before hurling insults at other people.


> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 12:18 PM, "Christoph Schäfer" wrote:
>
> > Would you mind being specific?
>
> 1. "Inkscape erweist sich als extrem leistungsfähig und bietet
> erstaunliche Funktionen, die man in der kommerziellen Konkurrenz
> vergeblich suchen wird, nicht zuletzt, weil sie patentiert sind und
> nur in Open-Source-Projekten ohne Lizenzgebühren eingesetzt werden
> dürfen."
>
> What Inkscape features are patented in proprietary software?

It is the other way around: Some Inkscape features are patented (does Spiro ring a bell?) but free for use in Open Source projects. They cannot be used in proprietary software without a licence. That's what the article says.

>
> 2. "unerwartete Probleme unter Windows und Mac OS X je nach
> Upgrade-Status nicht auszuschliessen waren."
>
> Expect the unexpected?
>

Read the Inkscape 0.92 release notes.


> 3. "Ansonsten bleibt Inkscape-Interessenten unter Linux und OS X
> derzeit nur das Kompilieren von Hand, was angesichts der unzähligen
> Abhängigkeiten schnell zu einem Albtraum werden kann."
>
> 'sudo apt-get build-dep inkscape' takes care about most of them.

First of all, not every Linux user is using Ubuntu. Second, this wasn't a real criticism. I only explained that the switch to CMake and new dependencies may result in no version at all for stable distributions or a delay. Moreover, the article was written weeks ago, because "Publisher" is a printed magazine. The online version will be made available once the subscribers have been served their print edition. If you were a professional journalist, you'd know about the delay between a deadline and the final print-run.


>
> 4. "Ebenso zu begrüssen wäre die Anpassung an die CSS3-Konventionen,
> wenn die Entwickler diese nicht so sorglos durchgeführt hätten.
> Inkscape 0.92 führt attraktive SVG-Elemente in der Hoffnung ein, dass
> sie dereinst in den SVG-Standard übernommen werden, tut dies aber ohne
> jede Garantie. Es werden ausserdem CSS3-Elemente eingeführt, von denen
> die Entwickler genau wissen, dass sie derzeit von keinem Browser
> unterstützt werden."
>
> How much do you _actually_ know about the situation with SVG2? In
> particular, how much do you know about the rule where features need a
> few implementaton instances before they can make it to the standard?
>
> Hint: http://libregraphicsworld.org/blog/entry/is-svg-2-really-on-life-support

I know enough about the SVG standard and the relevant procedures. That doesn't devalue my major criticism: SVGs created with some of the new features cannot be reliably used outside Inkscape. Users can't expect to export them successfully to Illustrator or CorelDraw for a pre-press preparation, and neither can web designers expect to use 0.92 reliably for web graphics, unless they forego all new features.

>
> 5. "Inkscape 0.92 bietet erfreulicherweise eine längst überfällige
> Funktion, nämlich die Darstellung des Dokuments in einem Objektbaum.
>
> The XML Editor in Inkscape has been providing that feature for years.
> The Objects dialog is just an easier UI for end-users.


A non-sequitur. I know about the XML editor, but that's totally beside the point. Professional vector designers don't read and write code, you know? The new object tree would be absolutely great, but the tree window is so small that it diminishes its usability, and it cannot be resized. *That's* the issue here.

>
> 6. "die Entwickler ignorieren noch immer die Anforderungen des Druckgewerbes"
>
> Developers don't ignore that. It's in the roadmap. You of all the
> people should know what limitations Cairo imposes on software with
> regards to CMYK and spot colors.

I, "of all people", know that the Cairo developers have rejected patches for CMYK and spot colour support, because they're not interested, which means that using Cairo for PDF export isn't going anywhere with respect to professional printing and PDF/X support. There are other solutions available, e.g. Ghostscript.

>
> 7. "Es bleibt schleierhaft, was sich die Inkscape-Entwickler mit
> dieser Veröffentlichung gedacht haben, die kaum jemandem, der
> professionell mit Vektorgrafiken arbeitet, wirklich nutzt."
>
> Yeah, if "professional use of vector graphics" == "CMYK exporting",
> then you are right. Except it's not.

See my comments above: Inkscape 0.92 SVGs can only be reliably displayed in this version and no other software. You need to export a bitmap to get all the visuals in other programmes.

>
> 8. "Angesichts dieser enttäuschenden Veröffentlichung steht zu hoffen,
> dass das Inkscape-Team sich in der nächsten Version anstatt auf neuen
> Feature-Zauber endlich auf die verlässliche Ausgabe für verschiedene
> Medien, inklusive PDF/X, besinnt."
>
> The roadmap is open for everyone. You are welcome to study it.
>
> http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Roadmap#Inkscape_0.93_.7E_Maintenance_and_Optimization_Focus
>
> In my experience, Inkscape developers are quite open to answering
> questions from the press and doing fact-checking. I encourage you to
> make use of that in your future endeavors.

As to your questioning of my professional integrity as a journalist, I suggest you take a deep look in the mirror. I'm on record with this list, describing issues graphics professionals have with the programme and proposing solutions. Moreover, as a professional, I need to know what my readers need to know. The readership doesn't comprise developers or nerds, but people who need to get their work done, most of the time under enormous pressure and overwhelmingly self-employed. And here's where Inkscape 0.92 comes short. Your nitpicking doesn't change anything here.


If you were a real journalist and not just a blogger you'd probably also be aware of 1) deadlines, 2) limitations on text size and 3) knowledge of your target audience.


Alex, frankly, I'm really fed up with your arrogance, your rudeness, your superficial pedantry and your total lack of manners. People like you are one of the reasons that make it hard to "sell" Open Source software to open-minded professionals who want to escape Adobe's clutches and who also may decide to help projects like Inkscape. Why don't you just go away and leave civilised people alone?


Christoph


>
> Alex
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>

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Re: Inkscape 0.92 review in German

Bryce Harrington-3
Please keep discussions on this list civil and constructive.

If you have questions please refer to:
  https://inkscape.org/community/coc/

Thanks,
Bryce

On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 09:14:52AM +0100, "Christoph Schäfer" wrote:

> You got some things completely wrong, as usual. Perhaps you should try to read texts carefully before hurling insults at other people.
>
>
> > On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 12:18 PM, "Christoph Schäfer" wrote:
> >
> > > Would you mind being specific?
> >
> > 1. "Inkscape erweist sich als extrem leistungsfähig und bietet
> > erstaunliche Funktionen, die man in der kommerziellen Konkurrenz
> > vergeblich suchen wird, nicht zuletzt, weil sie patentiert sind und
> > nur in Open-Source-Projekten ohne Lizenzgebühren eingesetzt werden
> > dürfen."
> >
> > What Inkscape features are patented in proprietary software?
>
> It is the other way around: Some Inkscape features are patented (does Spiro ring a bell?) but free for use in Open Source projects. They cannot be used in proprietary software without a licence. That's what the article says.
>
> >
> > 2. "unerwartete Probleme unter Windows und Mac OS X je nach
> > Upgrade-Status nicht auszuschliessen waren."
> >
> > Expect the unexpected?
> >
>
> Read the Inkscape 0.92 release notes.
>
>
> > 3. "Ansonsten bleibt Inkscape-Interessenten unter Linux und OS X
> > derzeit nur das Kompilieren von Hand, was angesichts der unzähligen
> > Abhängigkeiten schnell zu einem Albtraum werden kann."
> >
> > 'sudo apt-get build-dep inkscape' takes care about most of them.
>
> First of all, not every Linux user is using Ubuntu. Second, this wasn't a real criticism. I only explained that the switch to CMake and new dependencies may result in no version at all for stable distributions or a delay. Moreover, the article was written weeks ago, because "Publisher" is a printed magazine. The online version will be made available once the subscribers have been served their print edition. If you were a professional journalist, you'd know about the delay between a deadline and the final print-run.
>
>
> >
> > 4. "Ebenso zu begrüssen wäre die Anpassung an die CSS3-Konventionen,
> > wenn die Entwickler diese nicht so sorglos durchgeführt hätten.
> > Inkscape 0.92 führt attraktive SVG-Elemente in der Hoffnung ein, dass
> > sie dereinst in den SVG-Standard übernommen werden, tut dies aber ohne
> > jede Garantie. Es werden ausserdem CSS3-Elemente eingeführt, von denen
> > die Entwickler genau wissen, dass sie derzeit von keinem Browser
> > unterstützt werden."
> >
> > How much do you _actually_ know about the situation with SVG2? In
> > particular, how much do you know about the rule where features need a
> > few implementaton instances before they can make it to the standard?
> >
> > Hint: http://libregraphicsworld.org/blog/entry/is-svg-2-really-on-life-support
>
> I know enough about the SVG standard and the relevant procedures. That doesn't devalue my major criticism: SVGs created with some of the new features cannot be reliably used outside Inkscape. Users can't expect to export them successfully to Illustrator or CorelDraw for a pre-press preparation, and neither can web designers expect to use 0.92 reliably for web graphics, unless they forego all new features.
>
> >
> > 5. "Inkscape 0.92 bietet erfreulicherweise eine längst überfällige
> > Funktion, nämlich die Darstellung des Dokuments in einem Objektbaum.
> >
> > The XML Editor in Inkscape has been providing that feature for years.
> > The Objects dialog is just an easier UI for end-users.
>
>
> A non-sequitur. I know about the XML editor, but that's totally beside the point. Professional vector designers don't read and write code, you know? The new object tree would be absolutely great, but the tree window is so small that it diminishes its usability, and it cannot be resized. *That's* the issue here.
>
> >
> > 6. "die Entwickler ignorieren noch immer die Anforderungen des Druckgewerbes"
> >
> > Developers don't ignore that. It's in the roadmap. You of all the
> > people should know what limitations Cairo imposes on software with
> > regards to CMYK and spot colors.
>
> I, "of all people", know that the Cairo developers have rejected patches for CMYK and spot colour support, because they're not interested, which means that using Cairo for PDF export isn't going anywhere with respect to professional printing and PDF/X support. There are other solutions available, e.g. Ghostscript.
>
> >
> > 7. "Es bleibt schleierhaft, was sich die Inkscape-Entwickler mit
> > dieser Veröffentlichung gedacht haben, die kaum jemandem, der
> > professionell mit Vektorgrafiken arbeitet, wirklich nutzt."
> >
> > Yeah, if "professional use of vector graphics" == "CMYK exporting",
> > then you are right. Except it's not.
>
> See my comments above: Inkscape 0.92 SVGs can only be reliably displayed in this version and no other software. You need to export a bitmap to get all the visuals in other programmes.
>
> >
> > 8. "Angesichts dieser enttäuschenden Veröffentlichung steht zu hoffen,
> > dass das Inkscape-Team sich in der nächsten Version anstatt auf neuen
> > Feature-Zauber endlich auf die verlässliche Ausgabe für verschiedene
> > Medien, inklusive PDF/X, besinnt."
> >
> > The roadmap is open for everyone. You are welcome to study it.
> >
> > http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Roadmap#Inkscape_0.93_.7E_Maintenance_and_Optimization_Focus
> >
> > In my experience, Inkscape developers are quite open to answering
> > questions from the press and doing fact-checking. I encourage you to
> > make use of that in your future endeavors.
>
> As to your questioning of my professional integrity as a journalist, I suggest you take a deep look in the mirror. I'm on record with this list, describing issues graphics professionals have with the programme and proposing solutions. Moreover, as a professional, I need to know what my readers need to know. The readership doesn't comprise developers or nerds, but people who need to get their work done, most of the time under enormous pressure and overwhelmingly self-employed. And here's where Inkscape 0.92 comes short. Your nitpicking doesn't change anything here.
>
>
> If you were a real journalist and not just a blogger you'd probably also be aware of 1) deadlines, 2) limitations on text size and 3) knowledge of your target audience.
>
>
> Alex, frankly, I'm really fed up with your arrogance, your rudeness, your superficial pedantry and your total lack of manners. People like you are one of the reasons that make it hard to "sell" Open Source software to open-minded professionals who want to escape Adobe's clutches and who also may decide to help projects like Inkscape. Why don't you just go away and leave civilised people alone?
>
>
> Christoph
>
>
> >
> > Alex
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > _______________________________________________
> > Inkscape-devel mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

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Re: Inkscape 0.92 review in German

Chris Tooley
In reply to this post by Christoph Schäfer
A friendly hello to all!

Being a web developer, I thought I would chime in with a comment on a particular matter:
 
That doesn't devalue my major criticism: SVGs created with some of the new features cannot be reliably used outside Inkscape. Users can't expect to export them successfully to Illustrator or CorelDraw for a pre-press preparation, and neither can web designers expect to use 0.92 reliably for web graphics, unless they forego all new features.

I use Inkscape solely for all my vector editing and creation, but I rarely use it to export SVG for a website or to other programs. This is because SVG support is still really spotty at best in most browsers and yes, inkscape has some special sauce I think which Illustrator or others might not recognize or import properly - however, simple and easy designs (most of my vectors) are typically all that I want to export for websites in any case, so inkscape exports results more than admirably.

In fact, I would trust Inkscape with SVG creation/editing more than I would other proprietary tools. Just recently I had to modify an SVG that was created in some proprietary Mac tool and there were some issues with rendering the vectors properly.  I was able to fix it with Inkscape because I was so familiar with it and it's easy to use (for me) - and the resulting SVG was cleaner and more concise after I had finished modifying it with Inkscape.

(On my wishlist of things I wouldn't mind for inkscape, though, I would probably prefer some sort of "export to webgl canvas" instead of better svg export or somesuch thing like that.)

Regarding the article, I don't speak German so I cannot reasonably give any comments or criticisms :\

I would like to say that more eyes on this software I think can only produce better results. Having people involved, even with criticism, seems like a good thing, to me - I would also applaud that you've linked this list to the article.

-Chris

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Re: Inkscape 0.92 review in German

Alexandre Prokoudine
On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 10:33 PM, Chris Tooley wrote:

> In fact, I would trust Inkscape with SVG creation/editing more than I would
> other proprietary tools. Just recently I had to modify an SVG that was
> created in some proprietary Mac tool and there were some issues with
> rendering the vectors properly.  I was able to fix it with Inkscape because
> I was so familiar with it and it's easy to use (for me) - and the resulting
> SVG was cleaner and more concise after I had finished modifying it with
> Inkscape.

Check out https://github.com/RazrFalcon/svgcleaner when you have time.

Alex

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Re: Inkscape 0.92 review in German

Sylvain Chiron
In reply to this post by Christoph Schäfer
Hi,

Le 15/02/2017 à 09:14, "Christoph Schäfer" a écrit :
> Alex, frankly, I'm really fed up with your arrogance, your rudeness,
> your superficial pedantry and your total lack of manners. People like
> you are one of the reasons that make it hard to "sell" Open Source
> software to open-minded professionals who want to escape Adobe's
> clutches and who also may decide to help projects like Inkscape.
> Why don't you just go away and leave civilised people alone?

Translation in English:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fr&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpublisher.ch%2Ffachzeitschrift_detail.php%3Ft%3DZwischen%2Ballen%2BSt%C3%BChlen%26read_article%3D9733%26t%3DZwischen%20allen%20St%C3%BChlen&sandbox=1

True that the article’s tone is a bit hard, but it’s probably great for
the project to get such an analysis on issues professionals have with
the program. Computer software issues have always been a pain for
everyone, they must be listed sometimes.

Thank you for sharing your article and for your interest in Inkscape,
and sorry for the agressive reaction of one of our members.

(I’ve rarely been a good reference for politeness too, therefore I’m
practising.)

Regards,
--
Sylvain

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Re: Inkscape 0.92 review in German

Martin Owens-2
In reply to this post by Bryce Harrington-3
On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 10:02 -0800, Bryce Harrington wrote:
> Please keep discussions on this list civil and constructive.
>
> If you have questions please refer to:
>   https://inkscape.org/community/coc/

I can't remember if we document the fact that development is done in
English. It would be great if we could keep responses on inkscape-devel
in English so we all know if there's some CoC issues (I know I couldn't
tell and I was too lazy to translate it, sorry!)

Best Regards, Martin Owens

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Re: Inkscape 0.92 review in German

Christoph Schäfer
In reply to this post by Sylvain Chiron


> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. Februar 2017 um 23:08 Uhr
> Von: "Sylvain Chiron" <[hidden email]>
> An: [hidden email]
> Betreff: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Inkscape 0.92 review in German
>
> Hi,
>
> Le 15/02/2017 à 09:14, "Christoph Schäfer" a écrit :
> > Alex, frankly, I'm really fed up with your arrogance, your rudeness,
> > your superficial pedantry and your total lack of manners. People like
> > you are one of the reasons that make it hard to "sell" Open Source
> > software to open-minded professionals who want to escape Adobe's
> > clutches and who also may decide to help projects like Inkscape.
> > Why don't you just go away and leave civilised people alone?
>
> Translation in English:
> http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fr&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpublisher.ch%2Ffachzeitschrift_detail.php%3Ft%3DZwischen%2Ballen%2BSt%C3%BChlen%26read_article%3D9733%26t%3DZwischen%20allen%20St%C3%BChlen&sandbox=1
>
> True that the article’s tone is a bit hard, but it’s probably great for
> the project to get such an analysis on issues professionals have with
> the program. Computer software issues have always been a pain for
> everyone, they must be listed sometimes.
>
> Thank you for sharing your article and for your interest in Inkscape,
> and sorry for the agressive reaction of one of our members.
>
> (I’ve rarely been a good reference for politeness too, therefore I’m
> practising.)
>
> Regards,
> --
> Sylvain


Salut Sylvain,



First of all, you don't need to apologise for someone else.


Second, I don't think the article is too harsh. It's full of praise, but the conclusion is the same that has transpired in countless comments on this list, namely that 0.92 wasn't ready for release. My recommendation at the end is that 0.91 users should wait for 0.92.1 or 0.92.2 until the issues have been hopefully fixed and a DMG for OS X is available.


To give you some perspective, the readers of this magazine, which has an excellent reputation not only in Switzerland but in all German-speaking countries, are mostly working in the publishing industry, either print or cross-media, which means at least 90% of their readers are working on Macs. With no DMG for OS X available, they'll immediately lose interest, because installing a software via Macports or Homebrew can take hours.


I stumbled across this magazine years ago, when I found an article on Scribus that was outdated, and I contacted the editor about an update regarding Scribus (I'm a Scribus guy, btw). He agreed, and since then I've become their go-to author for articles regarding Libre Graphics (and more). I'm now a regular and trusted contributor and columnist. Moreover, I've been able to change the editor's stance from sceptical but interested to open and supportive of Open Source. All full-time editors of the magazine use either OpenOffice or LibreOffice these days, Firefox as their browser and Thunderbird for emails. The editor-in-chief is a fan of Ubuntu and uses it exclusively at home and at work. The magazine has also provided real-world test files for Scribus and the Document Liberation Project to improve the import libraries, which is their way of supporting Libre Graphics.


My reputation and the resulting trust was the result of critical reporting. It also resulted in me being invited to their annual autumn event as a speaker on Libre Graphics issues, which I've been doing for several years now. In addition to one or two talks I'm also available for questions about and demonstrations of Libre Graphics software during the whole event. Last year I also managed to get a PC with a huge screen and openSUSE as well as all the Libre Graphics goodies, including Inkscape, pre-installed and sponsored by a Swiss SUSE partner, so people could play with GIMP, Inkscape & Co.


Over the years not only business-like relationships, but also friendships developed, and I know firsthand what these professionals need. It's a huge mistake to think that everyone's enamoured with Adobe's quasi-monopoly, quite the contrary. Vector graphics professionals who tried to use Inkscape like it a lot, better than Illustrator, actually, but I've heard the same comments year in and year out: Lacking support of CMYK and spot colours as well as no PDF/X export are prohibitive.


Since I was writing for this particular audience, I hope you understand my conclusion.



Kind regards,
Christoph

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Re: Inkscape 0.92 review in German

Alexander Brock
In reply to this post by Christoph Schäfer
On 02/15/2017 09:14 AM, "Christoph Schäfer" wrote:
> It is the other way around: Some Inkscape features are patented (does Spiro ring a bell?)

No, please elaborate.

Best Regards,
Alexander


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Re: Inkscape 0.92 review in German

Alexandre Prokoudine
On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 3:13 PM, Alexander Brock wrote:
> On 02/15/2017 09:14 AM, "Christoph Schäfer" wrote:
>> It is the other way around: Some Inkscape features are patented (does Spiro ring a bell?)
>
> No, please elaborate.

https://github.com/fontforge/libspiro/blob/master/README-RaphLevien

Please note that Raph doesn't explicitly forbid the use of Spiro
technology in proprietary software.

Also, this is the only patent that Christoph referred to while
mentioning multiple patents.

Alex

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Re: Inkscape 0.92 review in German

Martin Owens-2
On Thu, 2017-02-16 at 15:38 +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 3:13 PM, Alexander Brock wrote:
> >
> > On 02/15/2017 09:14 AM, "Christoph Schäfer" wrote:
> > >
> > > It is the other way around: Some Inkscape features are patented
> > > (does Spiro ring a bell?)
> > No, please elaborate.
> https://github.com/fontforge/libspiro/blob/master/README-RaphLevien
>
> Please note that Raph doesn't explicitly forbid the use of Spiro
> technology in proprietary software.
>
> Also, this is the only patent that Christoph referred to while
> mentioning multiple patents.

That would likely be this one:

https://www.google.com/patents/US8520003?dq=Raph+Levien&hl=en&sa=X&ved=
0ahUKEwiJg-n645TSAhWNUSYKHQ_gAdsQ6AEIHDAA

Filed 2013, granted 2014, so US only and will probably expire in 2028
(although google's form doesn't say)

Best Regards, Martin Owens

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Re: Inkscape 0.92 review in German

Maren Hachmann
In reply to this post by Christoph Schäfer
Hi Christoph,

I hope Inkscape will get a better review next time :)

Print is static, unfortunately, but maybe you can sneak in some info, at
least to the people who matter?

Just picking some points that you maybe didn't know about, or that have
developed after the article has been written:


For Linux, we've now got snap, ppa and flatpak (thanks to Ted, Bryce and
Matthias Vogelsang).

A dmg package is being worked on and currently being tested, as you've
seen on the list (Tim Sheridon, with the help of su_v).

Not sure about the tiny objects dialog you get - I can resize, to any
size I want, even to fullscreen, if I so desire (but that's tested with
0.92.1pre2 on Linux, so may have been fixed? Or are you on a Mac, and
the issue is OS X specific, maybe?)

The line-height issues were really a downer, I agree. The setting of a
line-height works better now in 0.92.1, and it's also now remembered
correctly.

To get the old behaviour, I can set the line-height before I start
typing. I set it to 'unitless' (top empty field in dropdown) or em, then
I unset the button with the question mark, again: before I start typing.
No idea if that's what one is supposed to do, those buttons still need
some user-friendly documentation, but it appears to work.

For the meshes, you could mention the polyfill which is available for
the web: https://gitlab.com/Tavmjong/mesh.js/

For people who wish to have other raster export formats, there are
extensions available which can be used to export to them. One option is
currently jpg
(https://github.com/giacmir/Inkscape-JPEG-export-extension), and I've
worked on a webp export being added to it (but couldn't find a tester).

Kind Regards,
 Maren

Am 16.02.2017 um 08:21 schrieb "Christoph Schäfer":

>
>
>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. Februar 2017 um 23:08 Uhr
>> Von: "Sylvain Chiron" <[hidden email]>
>> An: [hidden email]
>> Betreff: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Inkscape 0.92 review in German
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Le 15/02/2017 à 09:14, "Christoph Schäfer" a écrit :
>>> Alex, frankly, I'm really fed up with your arrogance, your rudeness,
>>> your superficial pedantry and your total lack of manners. People like
>>> you are one of the reasons that make it hard to "sell" Open Source
>>> software to open-minded professionals who want to escape Adobe's
>>> clutches and who also may decide to help projects like Inkscape.
>>> Why don't you just go away and leave civilised people alone?
>>
>> Translation in English:
>> http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fr&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpublisher.ch%2Ffachzeitschrift_detail.php%3Ft%3DZwischen%2Ballen%2BSt%C3%BChlen%26read_article%3D9733%26t%3DZwischen%20allen%20St%C3%BChlen&sandbox=1
>>
>> True that the article’s tone is a bit hard, but it’s probably great for
>> the project to get such an analysis on issues professionals have with
>> the program. Computer software issues have always been a pain for
>> everyone, they must be listed sometimes.
>>
>> Thank you for sharing your article and for your interest in Inkscape,
>> and sorry for the agressive reaction of one of our members.
>>
>> (I’ve rarely been a good reference for politeness too, therefore I’m
>> practising.)
>>
>> Regards,
>> --
>> Sylvain
>
>
> Salut Sylvain,
>
>
>
> First of all, you don't need to apologise for someone else.
>
>
> Second, I don't think the article is too harsh. It's full of praise, but the conclusion is the same that has transpired in countless comments on this list, namely that 0.92 wasn't ready for release. My recommendation at the end is that 0.91 users should wait for 0.92.1 or 0.92.2 until the issues have been hopefully fixed and a DMG for OS X is available.
>
>
> To give you some perspective, the readers of this magazine, which has an excellent reputation not only in Switzerland but in all German-speaking countries, are mostly working in the publishing industry, either print or cross-media, which means at least 90% of their readers are working on Macs. With no DMG for OS X available, they'll immediately lose interest, because installing a software via Macports or Homebrew can take hours.
>
>
> I stumbled across this magazine years ago, when I found an article on Scribus that was outdated, and I contacted the editor about an update regarding Scribus (I'm a Scribus guy, btw). He agreed, and since then I've become their go-to author for articles regarding Libre Graphics (and more). I'm now a regular and trusted contributor and columnist. Moreover, I've been able to change the editor's stance from sceptical but interested to open and supportive of Open Source. All full-time editors of the magazine use either OpenOffice or LibreOffice these days, Firefox as their browser and Thunderbird for emails. The editor-in-chief is a fan of Ubuntu and uses it exclusively at home and at work. The magazine has also provided real-world test files for Scribus and the Document Liberation Project to improve the import libraries, which is their way of supporting Libre Graphics.
>
>
> My reputation and the resulting trust was the result of critical reporting. It also resulted in me being invited to their annual autumn event as a speaker on Libre Graphics issues, which I've been doing for several years now. In addition to one or two talks I'm also available for questions about and demonstrations of Libre Graphics software during the whole event. Last year I also managed to get a PC with a huge screen and openSUSE as well as all the Libre Graphics goodies, including Inkscape, pre-installed and sponsored by a Swiss SUSE partner, so people could play with GIMP, Inkscape & Co.
>
>
> Over the years not only business-like relationships, but also friendships developed, and I know firsthand what these professionals need. It's a huge mistake to think that everyone's enamoured with Adobe's quasi-monopoly, quite the contrary. Vector graphics professionals who tried to use Inkscape like it a lot, better than Illustrator, actually, but I've heard the same comments year in and year out: Lacking support of CMYK and spot colours as well as no PDF/X export are prohibitive.
>
>
> Since I was writing for this particular audience, I hope you understand my conclusion.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
> Christoph
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>


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Re: Inkscape 0.92 review in German

Alexandre Prokoudine
On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 5:16 PM, Maren Hachmann wrote:

> For people who wish to have other raster export formats, there are
> extensions available which can be used to export to them. One option is
> currently jpg
> (https://github.com/giacmir/Inkscape-JPEG-export-extension), and I've
> worked on a webp export being added to it (but couldn't find a tester).

If you have your code in a public space, announcing a call for testers
can be easily organized.

Alex

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Re: Inkscape 0.92 review in German

Maren Hachmann
Am 16.02.2017 um 15:50 schrieb Alexandre Prokoudine:

> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 5:16 PM, Maren Hachmann wrote:
>
>> For people who wish to have other raster export formats, there are
>> extensions available which can be used to export to them. One option is
>> currently jpg
>> (https://github.com/giacmir/Inkscape-JPEG-export-extension), and I've
>> worked on a webp export being added to it (but couldn't find a tester).
>
> If you have your code in a public space, announcing a call for testers
> can be easily organized.

- Thank you, Alex :)

It's here:
https://github.com/giacmir/Inkscape-JPEG-export-extension/pull/12

It would really only need one tester on Windows (who can also help debug
the new imagemagick naming issue - which would need to be fixed first),
one on Linux with a current, correctly compiled imagemagick version, and
maybe someone on a Mac (but I don't know if it works there at all).

The other issue is that the imagemagick version that is needed isn't
available for Ubuntu etc. without compiling with a flag for enabling
webp, because the packager finds that the feature is too 'new' (maybe
they're right, don't know).
Installing webp doesn't help for me. I just searched for updates on this
issue, and while it seemed it's enabled now according to some posts, I
just 'broke' my own version when upgrading...

Regards,
 Maren

> Alex
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>


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Re: Inkscape 0.92 review in German

Maren Hachmann
Am 16.02.2017 um 17:10 schrieb Maren Hachmann:

> Am 16.02.2017 um 15:50 schrieb Alexandre Prokoudine:
>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 5:16 PM, Maren Hachmann wrote:
>>
>>> For people who wish to have other raster export formats, there are
>>> extensions available which can be used to export to them. One option is
>>> currently jpg
>>> (https://github.com/giacmir/Inkscape-JPEG-export-extension), and I've
>>> worked on a webp export being added to it (but couldn't find a tester).
>>
>> If you have your code in a public space, announcing a call for testers
>> can be easily organized.
>
> - Thank you, Alex :)
>
> It's here:
> https://github.com/giacmir/Inkscape-JPEG-export-extension/pull/12

- Sorry the above is just the discussion, wanted to replace the link:
https://github.com/Moini/Inkscape-JPEG-export-extension-webp


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Re: Inkscape 0.92 review in German

Christoph Schäfer
In reply to this post by Maren Hachmann


> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Februar 2017 um 17:10 Uhr
> Von: "Maren Hachmann" <[hidden email]>
> An: [hidden email]
> Betreff: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Inkscape 0.92 review in German
>
> Am 16.02.2017 um 15:50 schrieb Alexandre Prokoudine:
> > On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 5:16 PM, Maren Hachmann wrote:
> >
> >> For people who wish to have other raster export formats, there are
> >> extensions available which can be used to export to them. One option is
> >> currently jpg
> >> (https://github.com/giacmir/Inkscape-JPEG-export-extension), and I've
> >> worked on a webp export being added to it (but couldn't find a tester).
> >
> > If you have your code in a public space, announcing a call for testers
> > can be easily organized.
>
> - Thank you, Alex :)
>
> It's here:
> https://github.com/giacmir/Inkscape-JPEG-export-extension/pull/12
>
> It would really only need one tester on Windows (who can also help debug
> the new imagemagick naming issue - which would need to be fixed first),
> one on Linux with a current, correctly compiled imagemagick version, and
> maybe someone on a Mac (but I don't know if it works there at all).
>
> The other issue is that the imagemagick version that is needed isn't
> available for Ubuntu etc. without compiling with a flag for enabling
> webp, because the packager finds that the feature is too 'new' (maybe
> they're right, don't know).
> Installing webp doesn't help for me. I just searched for updates on this
> issue, and while it seemed it's enabled now according to some posts, I
> just 'broke' my own version when upgrading...
>
> Regards,
>  Maren

Why create such an unnecessary dependy? Isn't libjpeg good enough? Also, for print-related export, the TIFF format is much more common, and there's libtiff waiting to be used ...

Christoph

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