Markers, a note about Rev 12363

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Markers, a note about Rev 12363

doctormo
Dear Devs,

I've just pushed revision 12363, it includes a simple but user-facing
change to the markers in the stroke-dialog which puts them all on one
line and removes the drop down label.

Now looks like this: http://imagebin.org/261038

I decided to keep the label row data for MarkerCombo for posterity, but
remove the display function.

I also used the hbox which cut down dramatically on lines since hbox use
is the same between gtk2 and 3. I didn't compile with gtk3, but I expect
it to work.

Please let me know if there are any problems you have with the change. I
decided to implement to favored design change after reviewing the
feedback on a group of design changes for the stroke dialog. Other
designs didn't make the grade so I've left those out.

Best Regards, Martin Owens


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Re: Markers, a note about Rev 12363

Vladimir Savic-3
Hi Martin,

I really like this tweak. Everything that gives us more screen space is welcomed change. Just one minor annoyance, which might be ubuntu's gtk theme problem, I see now is that there is no obvious "None" label at the top of list. It is there but appears as a few pixels high unmarked region you need to click at to remove marker.

One other idea:
Is it complicated to auto-select color profile in CMS combo-box of Fill/Stroke tab if there is only one assigned to a working document? Don't know if there is something I've overlooked in this approach though. Maybe others will have something to add...

Regards,
Vlada

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Re: Markers, a note about Rev 12363

doctormo

> Just one minor annoyance, which might be ubuntu's gtk theme problem, I
> see now is that there is no obvious "None" label at the top of list.
> It is there but appears as a few pixels high unmarked region you need
> to click at to remove marker.

That's not a theme bug, that's a real bug IMO. So I've fixed it by using
the Gtk::Remove stock icon where we want to say "No Marker".
>
Thanks for testing and finding that problem.

> One other idea:
> Is it complicated to auto-select color profile in CMS combo-box of
> Fill/Stroke tab if there is only one assigned to a working document?
> Don't know if there is something I've overlooked in this approach
> though. Maybe others will have something to add...

I'm not sure what you mean here. Maybe a mock-up would show me what you
mean.

Martin,



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Re: Markers, a note about Rev 12363

Alexandre Prokoudine
In reply to this post by doctormo
On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 7:57 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
> Dear Devs,
>
> I've just pushed revision 12363, it includes a simple but user-facing
> change to the markers in the stroke-dialog which puts them all on one
> line and removes the drop down label.
>
> Now looks like this: http://imagebin.org/261038

Martin,

It's a very nice idea, thank you for that :) But why is there a waste
of whitespace towards the bottom?

Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org

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Re: Markers, a note about Rev 12363

doctormo
On Wed, 2013-06-12 at 01:14 +0400, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
> It's a very nice idea, thank you for that :) But why is there a waste
> of whitespace towards the bottom?

That's the colour dialogs. I had a look at them and it depends on which
colour selector is being used... the widgets are not behaving and a lack
of templating (i.e. glade) makes experimentation impossible.

I'm actually a bit annoyed about that, the amount of inconsistent and
over-verbose code going into manufacturing gtk widgets is a crime in
some other universe I'm sure.

Martin,


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Re: Markers, a note about Rev 12363

Johan Engelen-4
In reply to this post by doctormo
On 11-6-2013 22:16, Martin Owens wrote:
>
>> Just one minor annoyance, which might be ubuntu's gtk theme problem, I
>> see now is that there is no obvious "None" label at the top of list.
>> It is there but appears as a few pixels high unmarked region you need
>> to click at to remove marker.
>
> That's not a theme bug, that's a real bug IMO. So I've fixed it by using
> the Gtk::Remove stock icon where we want to say "No Marker".

Oops, now on Windows upon attempting to open the Fill&Stroke dialog:

(inkscape.exe:7384): glibmm-CRITICAL **:
unhandled exception (type Glib::Error) in signal handler:
domain: gtk-icon-theme-error-quark
code  : 0
what  : Icon 'gtk-remove' not present in theme


Cheers,
   Johan


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Re: Markers, a note about Rev 12363

doctormo
On Wed, 2013-06-12 at 00:18 +0200, Johan Engelen wrote:
> Oops, now on Windows upon attempting to open the Fill&Stroke dialog:
>
> (inkscape.exe:7384): glibmm-CRITICAL **:
> unhandled exception (type Glib::Error) in signal handler:
> domain: gtk-icon-theme-error-quark
> code  : 0
> what  : Icon 'gtk-remove' not present in theme

Sorry Johan, got that fixed in the latest, you should see no icon
because gtk-remove doesn't exist (not sure about Windows icons) but at
least it won't crash and I've improved the implementation while I was
there.

Martin,


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Re: Markers, a note about Rev 12363

su_v-2
On 2013-06-12 24:56 +0100, Martin Owens wrote:

> On Wed, 2013-06-12 at 00:18 +0200, Johan Engelen wrote:
>> Oops, now on Windows upon attempting to open the Fill&Stroke dialog:
>>
>> (inkscape.exe:7384): glibmm-CRITICAL **:
>> unhandled exception (type Glib::Error) in signal handler:
>> domain: gtk-icon-theme-error-quark
>> code  : 0
>> what  : Icon 'gtk-remove' not present in theme
>
> Sorry Johan, got that fixed in the latest, you should see no icon
> because gtk-remove doesn't exist (not sure about Windows icons) but at
> least it won't crash and I've improved the implementation while I was
> there.

Not limited to the Windows backend of GTK+: r12364 crashed even with
GTK+'s stock icon theme (hicolor). A workaround was e.g. to set 'Gnome'
or another fancy icon theme as 'gtk-fallback-icon-theme' (via gtkrc).

AFAIU just filed report
 <https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1190072>
is about the same crash occuring on Linux (though the reporter doesn't
mention the revision with which the crash occured).

The crash was also reproducible with r12364 on OS X 10.7.5, using e.g.
Adwaita GTK2 theme and the stock 'hicolor' icon theme (tested with
latest GTK2 (2.24.18), X11 as well as Quartz backend)

r12367 no longer crashes AFAICT.

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Re: Markers, a note about Rev 12363

doctormo
On Wed, 2013-06-12 at 01:17 +0200, ~suv wrote:
> r12367 no longer crashes AFAICT.

Blubber! I've set the icon to 'remove' instead of 'gtk-remove' but with
no list online for default icons in gtk and a very incomplete list of
icons in the Ubuntu themes... It's trial and error time.

Let me know if it works, it does on Ubuntu.

Martin,


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Re: Markers, a note about Rev 12363

alvinpenner
r 12367 appears to be working well on Windows XP, r 12366 crashed.

thanks,
Alvin
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Re: Markers, a note about Rev 12363

su_v-2
In reply to this post by doctormo
On 2013-06-12 02:06 +0100, Martin Owens wrote:
> On Wed, 2013-06-12 at 01:17 +0200, ~suv wrote:
>> r12367 no longer crashes AFAICT.
>
> Blubber! I've set the icon to 'remove' instead of 'gtk-remove' but with
> no list online for default icons in gtk and a very incomplete list of
> icons in the Ubuntu themes... It's trial and error time.
>
> Let me know if it works, it does on Ubuntu.

Not sure if you misread my earlier message?

- Revision 12364 ("Fix new bug with No-Marker having no icon, use Stock
GTK::Remove icon for No-Marker.") introduced the crash (regression) when
opening the 'Fill & Stroke' dialog, if e.g. the stock GTK+ icon theme
'hicolor' is used (or no icon theme is explicitly defined at all).

- Revision 12367 ("Change back to using NULL and fix windows theme error
by checking") works without crash - independent of the icon theme used.

- Revision 12369 ("Use 'remove' instead of 'gtk-remove' for theme.")
also works without crash, no matter which icon theme is used.


Usability issue with the current solution:

Depending on the desktop (or GTK+) settings, neither of the two later
revisions (12367, 12369) displays an icon (or a fallback label) in the
marker selector menu though [1]:

Without an icon (or label, tooltip or whatsoever) - how do you tell
(new) users how they can remove a marker once it has been set? There is
nothing obvious in the popup menu which would indicate how to reset the
marker to 'None', unless one happens to notice that the row above the
top-most listed symbol in the popup menu displays a small (or even tiny)
highlighted (empty) stripe if hovered, and in fact is the active menu
entry for 'No marker'.


Just wondering: 'gtk-remove', or 'GTK_STOCK_REMOVE' does exist (even in
the stock icon theme), and seems to work just fine elsewhere in
Inkscape's dialogs (e.g. to remove a layer, or a live-path-effect). Why
not in the marker selection menu in Fill & Stroke?


-----
[1] tested & confirmed on OS X 10.7.5 with gtk icon theme explicitly set
to 'hicolor', as well as with an empty 'gtkrc' file -> fallback to stock
items/theme

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Re: Markers, a note about Rev 12363

doctormo
On Wed, 2013-06-12 at 09:43 +0200, ~suv wrote:
> Just wondering: 'gtk-remove', or 'GTK_STOCK_REMOVE' does exist (even
> in the stock icon theme), and seems to work just fine elsewhere in
> Inkscape's dialogs (e.g. to remove a layer, or a live-path-effect).
> Why not in the marker selection menu in Fill & Stroke?

That has me puzzled too, the only difference is that it uses the Theme
render to get a pixbuf instead of setting the image to a stock image.
That's specifically required for using it in a TreeView.

I'm looking into sp_icon_new, but it's proving impossible. Any advice is
welcome.

Martin,


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Re: Markers, a note about Rev 12363

doctormo
In reply to this post by su_v-2

> Just wondering: 'gtk-remove', or 'GTK_STOCK_REMOVE' does exist (even in
> the stock icon theme), and seems to work just fine elsewhere in
> Inkscape's dialogs (e.g. to remove a layer, or a live-path-effect). Why
> not in the marker selection menu in Fill & Stroke?

I decided to fix the problem by using an inkscape icon, I added a new
method to sp-icon to generate a pixbuf-only instead of juggling multiple
GtkImages and SPIcon objects.

Seems to work. Let me know if it's causing any more problems.

Best Regards, Martin Owens


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Re: Markers, a note about Rev 12363

Vladimir Savic-3
In reply to this post by doctormo
Hi Martin,
Sorry for very late reply.

There is no need for mock-up really. Read this lines if you've never tried assigning an ICC profile to a document:
"...First at least one CMYK profile needs to be added to the document being worked on. That can be accessed in the GUI through the "Color Management" tab on the document properties dialog. Once at least one profile has been added, the color pickers in the Fill & Stroke dialog can be used to pick colors in that colorspace via specifying the ICC profile." [1]
What annoys me is that even if you have only one ICC profile attached to a doc, you still need to manually select it from a drop-down combo of CMS tab (Fill&Straoke dialog). Can Inkscape automatically pick it for me?

Regards,
Vlada 




On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 10:16 PM, Martin Owens <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Just one minor annoyance, which might be ubuntu's gtk theme problem, I
> see now is that there is no obvious "None" label at the top of list.
> It is there but appears as a few pixels high unmarked region you need
> to click at to remove marker.

That's not a theme bug, that's a real bug IMO. So I've fixed it by using
the Gtk::Remove stock icon where we want to say "No Marker".
>
Thanks for testing and finding that problem.

> One other idea:
> Is it complicated to auto-select color profile in CMS combo-box of
> Fill/Stroke tab if there is only one assigned to a working document?
> Don't know if there is something I've overlooked in this approach
> though. Maybe others will have something to add...

I'm not sure what you mean here. Maybe a mock-up would show me what you
mean.

Martin,




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Re: CMS tab (was Markers, a note about Rev 12363)

Guillermo Espertino (Gez)
El 16/06/13 09:09, Vladimir Savic escribió:

> Hi Martin,
> Sorry for very late reply.
>
> There is no need for mock-up really. Read this lines if you've never
> tried assigning an ICC profile to a document:
> "...First at least one CMYK profile needs to be added to the document
> being worked on. That can be accessed in the GUI through the "Color
> Management" tab on the document properties dialog. Once at least one
> profile has been added, the color pickers in the Fill & Stroke dialog
> can be used to pick colors in that colorspace via specifying the ICC
> profile." [1]
> What annoys me is that even if you have only one ICC profile attached to
> a doc, you still need to manually select it from a drop-down combo of
> CMS tab (Fill&Straoke dialog). Can Inkscape automatically pick it for me?
>
> Regards,
> Vlada

I always wondered the reason of that tab. I mean, I can understand that
every object in the SVG document may have different color profiles and
that that dialog allows to choose whatever profile you want for the
selected object.
The question, however, is if that case of several profiles in the same
document is so frequent to justify that awkward default worflow for
managed color.
I think it's more realistic to think that a user would select one
profile for RGB and other for CMYK, and if she does it, it will be
probably because she wants every RGB and CMYK objects in the document in
that colorspace.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that nobody will need other profiles
in the document, but I'm convinced that's a less frequent case, and a
rare or edge case shouldn't make the experience of frequent tasks more
difficult or cumbersome.
Right now we have basically a "color-unmanaged" workflow and a tool for
managing color in a per-object basis.
I'd love to hear if a single user ever used that feature for a complex
drawing with hundreds of colors and objects.
Also, the CMS tab seems to work for CMYK but not for RGB but it allows
to pick an RGB profile anyway.

IMO, this can be improved unifying the sliders and getting rid of the
CMS tab.
If somebody chose a CMYK profile and attached it to the document, it
clarly means that CMYK values are relevant and a raw representation in
CMYK of RGB values isn't desirable anymore, so I think it would be
pretty reasonable to assume that if there is a single CMYK profile set
in the document, user will expect color managed CMYK when she uses it.
Regarding RGB, if there is no RGB profile set, generally sRGB is
assumed. Again, if a user choses a different RGB profile, is it to
expect that she wants that RGB profile for the elements in the document,
same case.
And what if user choses more than one profile? Then a multiple selector
can be used (pretty much like the current CMS tab).
Multiple profiles would require just an extra setting in the profile
embedding dialog for selecting what profile is the default or fallback
profile.
In that case every color would be color-managed once a profile is
selected, and only if another RGB or CMYK profile is added the selector
would appear in the RGB and CMYK sliders. (maybe an "unmanaged" option
could be added too).

I think this would work, but there's a remaining issue: unmanaged RGB
and CMYK sliders are linked (I mean, they are representations of the
same color in different models), but that's not possible with managed
colors.
That's technically solvable just with warnings in the dialogs. For
instance, if user chose an RGB combination that falls beyond the current
CMYK profile's gamut, a big fat label could warn the user that the
current color is out-of-gamut, allowing him to tweak the CMYK sliders,
which would automatically clip the RGB color to the closest CMYK
combination using the default rendering intent set in the preferences as
soon as he clicks on one of the sliders.
That also can be fixed by adding optional RGB clamping, so the RGB
sliders can't go beyond the printable gamut.

I think it can be done, and that would simplify the color managed
workflow in inkscape a lot.
If done properly, the unified dialogs could be extended to allow also
unmanaged values and different profiles, but that should be, IMO, a
second level option and not the primary workflow. I'm convinced that
most of the users choose a single colorspace (or two, an RGB and a CMYK
tops) for their everyday color-managed work.

I'd love to know what you guys think about this. Maybe I missed
something, but if you think it's a viable idea I would gladly turn this
idea into a detailed blueprint.
It looks like a good GSoC project for the future :-)

Gez.

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