Mesh gradient status and plea for help with testing.

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Mesh gradient status and plea for help with testing.

Tavmjong Bah

Hi,

Mesh gradients are included in SVG 2 but their remaining in the
specification is on shaky grounds.[1] We need to generate suitable SVG
content using meshes in order to generate enough buzz to get the
browser vendors to take notice. With that goal in mind, we would like
see meshes enabled in the 0.92.x release but need help with testing. 

I've just checked into trunk the final GUI improvements to mesh
handling. Please test and give me feedback. (And share any cool content
you creat!) I will be merging the changes into 0.92.x in the next
couple of days. For more information on how to use meshes see:

  http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Mesh_Gradients

Thanks,

Tav

[1] http://tavmjong.free.fr/svg2_status.html




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Re: Mesh gradient status and plea for help with testing.

mihaela.jurkovic

Awesome tool! It's been requested for years by many people, I'm glad we finally have it!

Sampling colors behind nodes is so awesome :) lovely when vectorizing a photo.


Swapping Fill and Stroke when one has a mesh makes them both solid. I'm guessing it has to do with having to duplicate them and scale to boundary box?
If both Fill and Stroke are meshed nothing happens when I try Swapping.

Applying an existing mesh to an object through Fill and Stroke dialogue can be a bit confusing because you always see a different mesh name after choosing one. This needs some tooltip or maybe some other guideline, maybe in Statusbar?

Selecting corner nodes only works with Shift + click, click-dragging around like with nodes seems to activate a different mesh, overriding the one already applied to an object. It should probably do nothing, and if possible make it select nodes within the area, unless it conflicts with something else.

Smoothing colors (experimental) doesn't make much sense to me, it produced even more sharper color edges, but maybe I'm using it wrong.

For more complex meshes, and even simple ones that you come back to after a while, you forget the logic behind your choices and it's hard to visualize which handle belongs to which node (they can be dragged way out of their original positions so they end up closer to a different node). It would be great if we could visualize their belonging, color them blue as well when their node is selected, or with a different color, and keep the white for those points that aren't related to currently selected one?


Google revealed this for me http://tavmjong.free.fr/SVG/MESH/Mesh.html Is it still relevant? I love the examples, can we post it on the forum? Also http://svgopen.org/2011/papers/18-Advanced_Gradients_for_SVG/

Can you explain tensor handles and how they relate to near-by beziers to a non-techy person? What should I pay attention to when moving them so I can get some intuitive understanding of what they do?

Mihaela aka prkos

On 08.11.2016 19:47, Tavmjong Bah wrote:
Hi,

Mesh gradients are included in SVG 2 but their remaining in the
specification is on shaky grounds.[1] We need to generate suitable SVG
content using meshes in order to generate enough buzz to get the
browser vendors to take notice. With that goal in mind, we would like
see meshes enabled in the 0.92.x release but need help with testing. 

I've just checked into trunk the final GUI improvements to mesh
handling. Please test and give me feedback. (And share any cool content
you creat!) I will be merging the changes into 0.92.x in the next
couple of days. For more information on how to use meshes see:

  http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Mesh_Gradients

Thanks,

Tav

[1] http://tavmjong.free.fr/svg2_status.html




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C R
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Re: Mesh gradient status and plea for help with testing.

C R

I think we should leverage our community power and redo some of the more popular Wikipedia graphics with gradient meshes. If the graphics are clearly better, we should be able to make a better case for meshes in svg 2. Maybe hold some sort of contest for producing the best gradient mesh alternative graphics each month (ongoing).

Thoughts?


On 9 Nov 2016 1:35 am, <[hidden email]> wrote:

Awesome tool! It's been requested for years by many people, I'm glad we finally have it!

Sampling colors behind nodes is so awesome :) lovely when vectorizing a photo.


Swapping Fill and Stroke when one has a mesh makes them both solid. I'm guessing it has to do with having to duplicate them and scale to boundary box?
If both Fill and Stroke are meshed nothing happens when I try Swapping.

Applying an existing mesh to an object through Fill and Stroke dialogue can be a bit confusing because you always see a different mesh name after choosing one. This needs some tooltip or maybe some other guideline, maybe in Statusbar?

Selecting corner nodes only works with Shift + click, click-dragging around like with nodes seems to activate a different mesh, overriding the one already applied to an object. It should probably do nothing, and if possible make it select nodes within the area, unless it conflicts with something else.

Smoothing colors (experimental) doesn't make much sense to me, it produced even more sharper color edges, but maybe I'm using it wrong.

For more complex meshes, and even simple ones that you come back to after a while, you forget the logic behind your choices and it's hard to visualize which handle belongs to which node (they can be dragged way out of their original positions so they end up closer to a different node). It would be great if we could visualize their belonging, color them blue as well when their node is selected, or with a different color, and keep the white for those points that aren't related to currently selected one?


Google revealed this for me http://tavmjong.free.fr/SVG/MESH/Mesh.html Is it still relevant? I love the examples, can we post it on the forum? Also http://svgopen.org/2011/papers/18-Advanced_Gradients_for_SVG/

Can you explain tensor handles and how they relate to near-by beziers to a non-techy person? What should I pay attention to when moving them so I can get some intuitive understanding of what they do?

Mihaela aka prkos

On 08.11.2016 19:47, Tavmjong Bah wrote:
Hi,

Mesh gradients are included in SVG 2 but their remaining in the
specification is on shaky grounds.[1] We need to generate suitable SVG
content using meshes in order to generate enough buzz to get the
browser vendors to take notice. With that goal in mind, we would like
see meshes enabled in the 0.92.x release but need help with testing. 

I've just checked into trunk the final GUI improvements to mesh
handling. Please test and give me feedback. (And share any cool content
you creat!) I will be merging the changes into 0.92.x in the next
couple of days. For more information on how to use meshes see:

  http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Mesh_Gradients

Thanks,

Tav

[1] http://tavmjong.free.fr/svg2_status.html




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Re: Mesh gradient status and plea for help with testing.

Tavmjong Bah
In reply to this post by mihaela.jurkovic
On Wed, 2016-11-09 at 02:33 +0100, [hidden email] wrote:

Awesome tool! It's been requested for years by many people, I'm glad we finally have it!

Sampling colors behind nodes is so awesome :) lovely when vectorizing a photo. 


Thanks for the positive feedback!

Swapping Fill and Stroke when one has a mesh makes them both solid. I'm guessing it has to do with having to duplicate them and scale to boundary box?
If both Fill and Stroke are meshed nothing happens when I try Swapping.


Fixed in trunk. It was due to an oversight.

Applying an existing mesh to an object through Fill and Stroke dialogue can be a bit confusing because you always see a different mesh name after choosing one. This needs some tooltip or maybe some other guideline, maybe in Statusbar?


Hopefully we will have a visual paint server selector in the near future so this won't be a problem.

Selecting corner nodes only works with Shift + click, click-dragging around like with nodes seems to activate a different mesh, overriding the one already applied to an object.

It should probably do nothing, and if possible make it select nodes within the area, unless it conflicts with something else.


I'll look at that possibility. Right now, that's the easiest way to generate a new mesh (it follows the Linear/Radial gradient pattern of generating a new gradient but with Linear/Radial gradients the stops are preserved. I can probably disable creating a new mesh if one already exists.

Smoothing colors (experimental) doesn't make much sense to me, it produced even more sharper color edges, but maybe I'm using it wrong.


It can probably be removed. Bicubic interpolation is a much better solution.


For more complex meshes, and even simple ones that you come back to after a while, you forget the logic behind your choices and it's hard to visualize which handle belongs to which node (they can be dragged way out of their original positions so they end up closer to a different node). It would be great if we could visualize their belonging, color them blue as well when their node is selected, or with a different color, and keep the white for those points that aren't related to currently selected one?


Jabier was working on something like this. I'll ping him about the idea.

Google revealed this for me http://tavmjong.free.fr/SVG/MESH/Mesh.html Is it still relevant? I love the examples, can we post it on the forum? Also http://svgopen.org/2011/papers/18-Advanced_Gradients_for_SVG/


Go ahead.

Can you explain tensor handles and how they relate to near-by beziers to a non-techy person? What should I pay attention to when moving them so I can get some intuitive understanding of what they do?


Tensor handles control how the color flows inside a patch. The edges of a patch are painted the same way regardless of the position of the tensor handles. Tensor points are included in Type 7(?) PDF gradients and I was interested in them when I was studying smoothing at patch boundaries. It turns out that while they can help with smoothing they are not nearly as effective as using bicubic interpolation so I never pushed them in the SVG working group (they are not part of SVG 2). They also complicate the syntax.

Tav

Mihaela aka prkos

On 08.11.2016 19:47, Tavmjong Bah wrote:
Hi,

Mesh gradients are included in SVG 2 but their remaining in the
specification is on shaky grounds.[1] We need to generate suitable SVG
content using meshes in order to generate enough buzz to get the
browser vendors to take notice. With that goal in mind, we would like
see meshes enabled in the 0.92.x release but need help with testing. 

I've just checked into trunk the final GUI improvements to mesh
handling. Please test and give me feedback. (And share any cool content
you creat!) I will be merging the changes into 0.92.x in the next
couple of days. For more information on how to use meshes see:

  http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Mesh_Gradients

Thanks,

Tav

[1] http://tavmjong.free.fr/svg2_status.html

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Re: Mesh gradient status and plea for help with testing.

Sebastian Zartner
In reply to this post by Tavmjong Bah
Mesh gradients are really great!

On 8 November 2016 at 19:47, Tavmjong Bah <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

Mesh gradients are included in SVG 2 but their remaining in the
specification is on shaky grounds.[1] We need to generate suitable SVG
content using meshes in order to generate enough buzz to get the
browser vendors to take notice.

For what it's worth, the related Firefox (Gecko) bug is here:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1238882
 
With that goal in mind, we would like
see meshes enabled in the 0.92.x release but need help with testing. 

I've just checked into trunk the final GUI improvements to mesh
handling. Please test and give me feedback. (And share any cool content
you creat!) I will be merging the changes into 0.92.x in the next
couple of days. For more information on how to use meshes see:

  http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Mesh_Gradients

I didn't have time yet to try the UI changes out, though I hope to do so the next days to provide some feedback.

Best regards,

Sebastian

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Re: Mesh gradient status and plea for help with testing.

Eduard Braun
In reply to this post by C R
Am 09.11.2016 um 09:00 schrieb C R:
>
> I think we should leverage our community power and redo some of the
> more popular Wikipedia graphics with gradient meshes. If the graphics
> are clearly better, we should be able to make a better case for meshes
> in svg 2. Maybe hold some sort of contest for producing the best
> gradient mesh alternative graphics each month (ongoing).
>
> Thoughts?
>

That won't work...
SVGs on Wikipedia are never directly sent to the users browser but
instead are always pre-rendered by Wikimedia Servers using librsvg
(which to the best of my knowledge does not have any gradient mesh support).

Therefore including gradient meshes in Wikipedia graphics would
basically break them and would send the opposite message to people (like
with flowRegions from flowed text which renders as black rectangles
which is mostly blamed on Inkscape being "not standard conformant").

The case would look completely different if somebody took on the
challenge to implement gradient meshes in librsvg. Then we could use
them for graphics on Wikipedia and people would start to ask: "Why does
the image look much better on Wikipedia than it does when rendered by my
browser?"

Regards,
Eduard

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Re: Mesh gradient status and plea for help with testing.

C R

Okay, then we need video of how gradient meshes help make producing vector art faster and better. And show the clear advantages of having it renderable as vector in browser which eliminates the need for processing it into done other format in the first place.

-C


On 9 Nov 2016 9:39 am, "Eduard Braun" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Am 09.11.2016 um 09:00 schrieb C R:

I think we should leverage our community power and redo some of the more popular Wikipedia graphics with gradient meshes. If the graphics are clearly better, we should be able to make a better case for meshes in svg 2. Maybe hold some sort of contest for producing the best gradient mesh alternative graphics each month (ongoing).

Thoughts?


That won't work...
SVGs on Wikipedia are never directly sent to the users browser but instead are always pre-rendered by Wikimedia Servers using librsvg (which to the best of my knowledge does not have any gradient mesh support).

Therefore including gradient meshes in Wikipedia graphics would basically break them and would send the opposite message to people (like with flowRegions from flowed text which renders as black rectangles which is mostly blamed on Inkscape being "not standard conformant").

The case would look completely different if somebody took on the challenge to implement gradient meshes in librsvg. Then we could use them for graphics on Wikipedia and people would start to ask: "Why does the image look much better on Wikipedia than it does when rendered by my browser?"

Regards,
Eduard

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Re: Mesh gradient status and plea for help with testing.

Victor Westmann

Then we all go together to Google Chrome and mozilla firefox and fill the feature request with this featute


On Nov 9, 2016 2:47 AM, "C R" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Okay, then we need video of how gradient meshes help make producing vector art faster and better. And show the clear advantages of having it renderable as vector in browser which eliminates the need for processing it into done other format in the first place.

-C


On 9 Nov 2016 9:39 am, "Eduard Braun" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Am 09.11.2016 um 09:00 schrieb C R:

I think we should leverage our community power and redo some of the more popular Wikipedia graphics with gradient meshes. If the graphics are clearly better, we should be able to make a better case for meshes in svg 2. Maybe hold some sort of contest for producing the best gradient mesh alternative graphics each month (ongoing).

Thoughts?


That won't work...
SVGs on Wikipedia are never directly sent to the users browser but instead are always pre-rendered by Wikimedia Servers using librsvg (which to the best of my knowledge does not have any gradient mesh support).

Therefore including gradient meshes in Wikipedia graphics would basically break them and would send the opposite message to people (like with flowRegions from flowed text which renders as black rectangles which is mostly blamed on Inkscape being "not standard conformant").

The case would look completely different if somebody took on the challenge to implement gradient meshes in librsvg. Then we could use them for graphics on Wikipedia and people would start to ask: "Why does the image look much better on Wikipedia than it does when rendered by my browser?"

Regards,
Eduard

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Re: Mesh gradient status and plea for help with testing.

C R

Do you think that is enough? We need to show them and the community the advantages of the feature to get enough backing for it, don't you think?

-C


On 9 Nov 2016 4:22 pm, "Victor Westmann" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Then we all go together to Google Chrome and mozilla firefox and fill the feature request with this featute


On Nov 9, 2016 2:47 AM, "C R" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Okay, then we need video of how gradient meshes help make producing vector art faster and better. And show the clear advantages of having it renderable as vector in browser which eliminates the need for processing it into done other format in the first place.

-C


On 9 Nov 2016 9:39 am, "Eduard Braun" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Am 09.11.2016 um 09:00 schrieb C R:

I think we should leverage our community power and redo some of the more popular Wikipedia graphics with gradient meshes. If the graphics are clearly better, we should be able to make a better case for meshes in svg 2. Maybe hold some sort of contest for producing the best gradient mesh alternative graphics each month (ongoing).

Thoughts?


That won't work...
SVGs on Wikipedia are never directly sent to the users browser but instead are always pre-rendered by Wikimedia Servers using librsvg (which to the best of my knowledge does not have any gradient mesh support).

Therefore including gradient meshes in Wikipedia graphics would basically break them and would send the opposite message to people (like with flowRegions from flowed text which renders as black rectangles which is mostly blamed on Inkscape being "not standard conformant").

The case would look completely different if somebody took on the challenge to implement gradient meshes in librsvg. Then we could use them for graphics on Wikipedia and people would start to ask: "Why does the image look much better on Wikipedia than it does when rendered by my browser?"

Regards,
Eduard

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Re: Mesh gradient status and plea for help with testing.

Jabier Arraiza

Hi to all!

I try to upload to inkscape.org a resource done time ago -very simple-
with mesh, and show as white doc.

https://inkscape.org/en/~jabiertxof/%E2%98%85logo-mesh

Now compiling new changes but in my version of trunk I coulent copy a
mesh gradient between documents.

Cheers, Jabier.


On Wed, 2016-11-09 at 16:46 +0000, C R wrote:
Do you think that is enough? We need to show them and the community the
advantages of the feature to get enough backing for it, don't you think?

-C

On 9 Nov 2016 4:22 pm, "Victor Westmann" <[hidden email]> wrote:


Then we all go together to Google Chrome and mozilla firefox and fill the
feature request with this featute

On Nov 9, 2016 2:47 AM, "C R" <[hidden email]> wrote:


Okay, then we need video of how gradient meshes help make producing
vector art faster and better. And show the clear advantages of having it
renderable as vector in browser which eliminates the need for processing it
into done other format in the first place.

-C

On 9 Nov 2016 9:39 am, "Eduard Braun" <[hidden email]> wrote:


Am 09.11.2016 um 09:00 schrieb C R:



I think we should leverage our community power and redo some of the
more popular Wikipedia graphics with gradient meshes. If the graphics are
clearly better, we should be able to make a better case for meshes in svg
2. Maybe hold some sort of contest for producing the best gradient mesh
alternative graphics each month (ongoing).

Thoughts?



That won't work...
SVGs on Wikipedia are never directly sent to the users browser but
instead are always pre-rendered by Wikimedia Servers using librsvg (which
to the best of my knowledge does not have any gradient mesh support).

Therefore including gradient meshes in Wikipedia graphics would
basically break them and would send the opposite message to people (like
with flowRegions from flowed text which renders as black rectangles which
is mostly blamed on Inkscape being "not standard conformant").

The case would look completely different if somebody took on the
challenge to implement gradient meshes in librsvg. Then we could use them
for graphics on Wikipedia and people would start to ask: "Why does the
image look much better on Wikipedia than it does when rendered by my
browser?"

Regards,
Eduard



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Re: Mesh gradient status and plea for help with testing.

doctormo
If we want the website to generate proper inkscape rendered pngs, then
we'll need to get inkscape running on a CentOS 6 machine. Which is
really where that whole thing falls apart. All the deps are so old that
it makes the problem really hard.

But, if it's possible to package inkscape 0.92 into a self contained
opt type package, maybe it would be possible?

I'd like to hear the thoughts of the more experenced package people for
Linux.

Martin,

On Wed, 2016-11-09 at 18:13 +0100, Jabier Arraiza wrote:

> Hi to all!
>
> I try to upload to inkscape.org a resource done time ago -very
> simple-
> with mesh, and show as white doc.
>
> https://inkscape.org/en/~jabiertxof/%E2%98%85logo-mesh
>
> Now compiling new changes but in my version of trunk I coulent copy a
> mesh gradient between documents.
>
> Cheers, Jabier.
>
>
> On Wed, 2016-11-09 at 16:46 +0000, C R wrote:
> Do you think that is enough? We need to show them and the community
> the
> advantages of the feature to get enough backing for it, don't you
> think?
>
> -C
>
> On 9 Nov 2016 4:22 pm, "Victor Westmann" <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>
> Then we all go together to Google Chrome and mozilla firefox and fill
> the
> feature request with this featute
>
> On Nov 9, 2016 2:47 AM, "C R" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Okay, then we need video of how gradient meshes help make producing
> vector art faster and better. And show the clear advantages of having
> it
> renderable as vector in browser which eliminates the need for
> processing it
> into done other format in the first place.
>
> -C
>
> On 9 Nov 2016 9:39 am, "Eduard Braun" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Am 09.11.2016 um 09:00 schrieb C R:
>
>
>
> I think we should leverage our community power and redo some of the
> more popular Wikipedia graphics with gradient meshes. If the graphics
> are
> clearly better, we should be able to make a better case for meshes in
> svg
> 2. Maybe hold some sort of contest for producing the best gradient
> mesh
> alternative graphics each month (ongoing).
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
> That won't work...
> SVGs on Wikipedia are never directly sent to the users browser but
> instead are always pre-rendered by Wikimedia Servers using librsvg
> (which
> to the best of my knowledge does not have any gradient mesh support).
>
> Therefore including gradient meshes in Wikipedia graphics would
> basically break them and would send the opposite message to people
> (like
> with flowRegions from flowed text which renders as black rectangles
> which
> is mostly blamed on Inkscape being "not standard conformant").
>
> The case would look completely different if somebody took on the
> challenge to implement gradient meshes in librsvg. Then we could use
> them
> for graphics on Wikipedia and people would start to ask: "Why does
> the
> image look much better on Wikipedia than it does when rendered by my
> browser?"
>
> Regards,
> Eduard
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------
> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> Training and support from Colfax.
> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]://lists.sourceforge.net/lis
> ts/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------
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> Training and support from Colfax.
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>
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> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> Training and support from Colfax.
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Re: Mesh gradient status and plea for help with testing.

Jabier Arraiza
I think the goal is a js.polifill to inlude and render ok the SVG as
Tav says, I search a bit and dont find :(. To process a PNG we have
thumb file now in uploads, let the user use.

Cheers, Jabier.


On Wed, 2016-11-09 at 12:55 -0500, Martin Owens wrote:

> If we want the website to generate proper inkscape rendered pngs,
> then
> we'll need to get inkscape running on a CentOS 6 machine. Which is
> really where that whole thing falls apart. All the deps are so old
> that
> it makes the problem really hard.
>
> But, if it's possible to package inkscape 0.92 into a self contained
> opt type package, maybe it would be possible?
>
> I'd like to hear the thoughts of the more experenced package people
> for
> Linux.
>
> Martin,
>
> On Wed, 2016-11-09 at 18:13 +0100, Jabier Arraiza wrote:
> > Hi to all!
> >
> > I try to upload to inkscape.org a resource done time ago -very
> > simple-
> > with mesh, and show as white doc.
> >
> > https://inkscape.org/en/~jabiertxof/%E2%98%85logo-mesh
> >
> > Now compiling new changes but in my version of trunk I coulent copy
> > a
> > mesh gradient between documents.
> >
> > Cheers, Jabier.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 2016-11-09 at 16:46 +0000, C R wrote:
> > Do you think that is enough? We need to show them and the community
> > the
> > advantages of the feature to get enough backing for it, don't you
> > think?
> >
> > -C
> >
> > On 9 Nov 2016 4:22 pm, "Victor Westmann" <[hidden email]
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > Then we all go together to Google Chrome and mozilla firefox and
> > fill
> > the
> > feature request with this featute
> >
> > On Nov 9, 2016 2:47 AM, "C R" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Okay, then we need video of how gradient meshes help make producing
> > vector art faster and better. And show the clear advantages of
> > having
> > it
> > renderable as vector in browser which eliminates the need for
> > processing it
> > into done other format in the first place.
> >
> > -C
> >
> > On 9 Nov 2016 9:39 am, "Eduard Braun" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Am 09.11.2016 um 09:00 schrieb C R:
> >
> >
> >
> > I think we should leverage our community power and redo some of the
> > more popular Wikipedia graphics with gradient meshes. If the
> > graphics
> > are
> > clearly better, we should be able to make a better case for meshes
> > in
> > svg
> > 2. Maybe hold some sort of contest for producing the best gradient
> > mesh
> > alternative graphics each month (ongoing).
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> >
> >
> > That won't work...
> > SVGs on Wikipedia are never directly sent to the users browser but
> > instead are always pre-rendered by Wikimedia Servers using librsvg
> > (which
> > to the best of my knowledge does not have any gradient mesh
> > support).
> >
> > Therefore including gradient meshes in Wikipedia graphics would
> > basically break them and would send the opposite message to people
> > (like
> > with flowRegions from flowed text which renders as black rectangles
> > which
> > is mostly blamed on Inkscape being "not standard conformant").
> >
> > The case would look completely different if somebody took on the
> > challenge to implement gradient meshes in librsvg. Then we could
> > use
> > them
> > for graphics on Wikipedia and people would start to ask: "Why does
> > the
> > image look much better on Wikipedia than it does when rendered by
> > my
> > browser?"
> >
> > Regards,
> > Eduard
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > ------------------
> > Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
> > Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> > With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> > Training and support from Colfax.
> > Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
> > _______________________________________________
> > Inkscape-devel mailing list
> > [hidden email]://lists.sourceforge.net/l
> > is
> > ts/listinfo/inkscape-devel
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -----------
> > Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
> > Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> > With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> > Training and support from Colfax.
> > Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
> > _______________________________________________
> > Inkscape-devel mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -----------
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> > Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
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C R
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Re: Mesh gradient status and plea for help with testing.

C R
Finally got time today to play with gradient meshes. First, I'd like
to thank Tav for the amazing work. It's really awesome to see these
make it into Inkscape, regardless of if they actually make it into the
SVG 2 spec. I look forward to using them and showing them off to
others interested in vector editing.

I agree that click+drag should used for selecting nodes. This was
insta-confusing for me as well. And it threw away my gradient on more
than one occasion when I forgot, forcing me to undo and try again. I
think it used to be alt+m to add a mesh gradient... but it doesn't
seem to work anymore. Anyway, that hotkey was fine for a quick-mesh.

There does not seem to be any easy way to select more than one node if
they overlap eachother, like they do at the center and left-hand side
of the conical gradient. I would definitely try to make click-drag
lasso or box select node instead of applying a gradient. Even if we
wanted to use it for adding a gradient, I would expect a linear
gradient to be added rather than mesh gradient, and to be done in
real-time based on the two points (initial click-hold is the first end
of the gradient, and then release to indicate the last point of the
linear gradient).

For the conical gradient, I'd lock all the points that overlap
together, as moving one node from the middle makes it not-so conical
anymore. :) Thus, moving the central node would move the ones under it
too to move the center/tip of the cone, and preserve the cone
shape/effect.

Also, when you apply a mesh gradient fill to a shape, I would
auto-switch to the mesh gradient tool, so the user can see all the
mesh options at the top of the screen.

There does not seem to be a method of adding a node to an arbitrary
position, which forces the user to increase the mesh size to get more
nodes. A double-click should add more mesh-node geometry so the user
can designate a different colour at the position clicked (following
the convention used in linear gradient editing).

That's my first impression anyway. :) Excellent work as always, Tav. I
look forward to seeing it evolve into a staple of vector editing in
Inkscape.

-C



On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 6:43 PM, Jabier Arraiza <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think the goal is a js.polifill to inlude and render ok the SVG as
> Tav says, I search a bit and dont find :(. To process a PNG we have
> thumb file now in uploads, let the user use.
>
> Cheers, Jabier.
>
>
> On Wed, 2016-11-09 at 12:55 -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
>> If we want the website to generate proper inkscape rendered pngs,
>> then
>> we'll need to get inkscape running on a CentOS 6 machine. Which is
>> really where that whole thing falls apart. All the deps are so old
>> that
>> it makes the problem really hard.
>>
>> But, if it's possible to package inkscape 0.92 into a self contained
>> opt type package, maybe it would be possible?
>>
>> I'd like to hear the thoughts of the more experenced package people
>> for
>> Linux.
>>
>> Martin,
>>
>> On Wed, 2016-11-09 at 18:13 +0100, Jabier Arraiza wrote:
>> > Hi to all!
>> >
>> > I try to upload to inkscape.org a resource done time ago -very
>> > simple-
>> > with mesh, and show as white doc.
>> >
>> > https://inkscape.org/en/~jabiertxof/%E2%98%85logo-mesh
>> >
>> > Now compiling new changes but in my version of trunk I coulent copy
>> > a
>> > mesh gradient between documents.
>> >
>> > Cheers, Jabier.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, 2016-11-09 at 16:46 +0000, C R wrote:
>> > Do you think that is enough? We need to show them and the community
>> > the
>> > advantages of the feature to get enough backing for it, don't you
>> > think?
>> >
>> > -C
>> >
>> > On 9 Nov 2016 4:22 pm, "Victor Westmann" <[hidden email]
>> > >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Then we all go together to Google Chrome and mozilla firefox and
>> > fill
>> > the
>> > feature request with this featute
>> >
>> > On Nov 9, 2016 2:47 AM, "C R" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Okay, then we need video of how gradient meshes help make producing
>> > vector art faster and better. And show the clear advantages of
>> > having
>> > it
>> > renderable as vector in browser which eliminates the need for
>> > processing it
>> > into done other format in the first place.
>> >
>> > -C
>> >
>> > On 9 Nov 2016 9:39 am, "Eduard Braun" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Am 09.11.2016 um 09:00 schrieb C R:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I think we should leverage our community power and redo some of the
>> > more popular Wikipedia graphics with gradient meshes. If the
>> > graphics
>> > are
>> > clearly better, we should be able to make a better case for meshes
>> > in
>> > svg
>> > 2. Maybe hold some sort of contest for producing the best gradient
>> > mesh
>> > alternative graphics each month (ongoing).
>> >
>> > Thoughts?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > That won't work...
>> > SVGs on Wikipedia are never directly sent to the users browser but
>> > instead are always pre-rendered by Wikimedia Servers using librsvg
>> > (which
>> > to the best of my knowledge does not have any gradient mesh
>> > support).
>> >
>> > Therefore including gradient meshes in Wikipedia graphics would
>> > basically break them and would send the opposite message to people
>> > (like
>> > with flowRegions from flowed text which renders as black rectangles
>> > which
>> > is mostly blamed on Inkscape being "not standard conformant").
>> >
>> > The case would look completely different if somebody took on the
>> > challenge to implement gradient meshes in librsvg. Then we could
>> > use
>> > them
>> > for graphics on Wikipedia and people would start to ask: "Why does
>> > the
>> > image look much better on Wikipedia than it does when rendered by
>> > my
>> > browser?"
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Eduard
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > ------------------
>> > Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>> > Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>> > With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>> > Training and support from Colfax.
>> > Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Inkscape-devel mailing list
>> > [hidden email]://lists.sourceforge.net/l
>> > is
>> > ts/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>> >
>> >
>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > -----------
>> > Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>> > Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>> > With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>> > Training and support from Colfax.
>> > Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Inkscape-devel mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>> >
>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > -----------
>> > Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>> > Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>> > With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>> > Training and support from Colfax.
>> > Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
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Re: Mesh gradient status and plea for help with testing.

mihaela.jurkovic

@ C R double-clicking does add another column of nodes in that place. It may be more than what you bargained for, but I guess grid structure is what it's about ATM.


Copying an object with a mesh into a new document doesn't copy the mesh with it!


BTW I was able to achieve this non-smooth pattern by moving nodes and handles (attached 2 screenshots). Is this expected or should it never happen?

Mihaela aka prkos


On 13.11.2016 16:20, C R wrote:
Finally got time today to play with gradient meshes. First, I'd like
to thank Tav for the amazing work. It's really awesome to see these
make it into Inkscape, regardless of if they actually make it into the
SVG 2 spec. I look forward to using them and showing them off to
others interested in vector editing.

I agree that click+drag should used for selecting nodes. This was
insta-confusing for me as well. And it threw away my gradient on more
than one occasion when I forgot, forcing me to undo and try again. I
think it used to be alt+m to add a mesh gradient... but it doesn't
seem to work anymore. Anyway, that hotkey was fine for a quick-mesh.

There does not seem to be any easy way to select more than one node if
they overlap eachother, like they do at the center and left-hand side
of the conical gradient. I would definitely try to make click-drag
lasso or box select node instead of applying a gradient. Even if we
wanted to use it for adding a gradient, I would expect a linear
gradient to be added rather than mesh gradient, and to be done in
real-time based on the two points (initial click-hold is the first end
of the gradient, and then release to indicate the last point of the
linear gradient).

For the conical gradient, I'd lock all the points that overlap
together, as moving one node from the middle makes it not-so conical
anymore. :) Thus, moving the central node would move the ones under it
too to move the center/tip of the cone, and preserve the cone
shape/effect.

Also, when you apply a mesh gradient fill to a shape, I would
auto-switch to the mesh gradient tool, so the user can see all the
mesh options at the top of the screen.

There does not seem to be a method of adding a node to an arbitrary
position, which forces the user to increase the mesh size to get more
nodes. A double-click should add more mesh-node geometry so the user
can designate a different colour at the position clicked (following
the convention used in linear gradient editing).

That's my first impression anyway. :) Excellent work as always, Tav. I
look forward to seeing it evolve into a staple of vector editing in
Inkscape.

-C



On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 6:43 PM, Jabier Arraiza [hidden email] wrote:
I think the goal is a js.polifill to inlude and render ok the SVG as
Tav says, I search a bit and dont find :(. To process a PNG we have
thumb file now in uploads, let the user use.

Cheers, Jabier.


On Wed, 2016-11-09 at 12:55 -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
If we want the website to generate proper inkscape rendered pngs,
then
we'll need to get inkscape running on a CentOS 6 machine. Which is
really where that whole thing falls apart. All the deps are so old
that
it makes the problem really hard.

But, if it's possible to package inkscape 0.92 into a self contained
opt type package, maybe it would be possible?

I'd like to hear the thoughts of the more experenced package people
for
Linux.

Martin,

On Wed, 2016-11-09 at 18:13 +0100, Jabier Arraiza wrote:
Hi to all!

I try to upload to inkscape.org a resource done time ago -very
simple-
with mesh, and show as white doc.

https://inkscape.org/en/~jabiertxof/%E2%98%85logo-mesh

Now compiling new changes but in my version of trunk I coulent copy
a
mesh gradient between documents.

Cheers, Jabier.


On Wed, 2016-11-09 at 16:46 +0000, C R wrote:
Do you think that is enough? We need to show them and the community
the
advantages of the feature to get enough backing for it, don't you
think?

-C

On 9 Nov 2016 4:22 pm, "Victor Westmann" <[hidden email]

            
wrote:


Then we all go together to Google Chrome and mozilla firefox and
fill
the
feature request with this featute

On Nov 9, 2016 2:47 AM, "C R" [hidden email] wrote:


Okay, then we need video of how gradient meshes help make producing
vector art faster and better. And show the clear advantages of
having
it
renderable as vector in browser which eliminates the need for
processing it
into done other format in the first place.

-C

On 9 Nov 2016 9:39 am, "Eduard Braun" [hidden email] wrote:


Am 09.11.2016 um 09:00 schrieb C R:



I think we should leverage our community power and redo some of the
more popular Wikipedia graphics with gradient meshes. If the
graphics
are
clearly better, we should be able to make a better case for meshes
in
svg
2. Maybe hold some sort of contest for producing the best gradient
mesh
alternative graphics each month (ongoing).

Thoughts?



That won't work...
SVGs on Wikipedia are never directly sent to the users browser but
instead are always pre-rendered by Wikimedia Servers using librsvg
(which
to the best of my knowledge does not have any gradient mesh
support).

Therefore including gradient meshes in Wikipedia graphics would
basically break them and would send the opposite message to people
(like
with flowRegions from flowed text which renders as black rectangles
which
is mostly blamed on Inkscape being "not standard conformant").

The case would look completely different if somebody took on the
challenge to implement gradient meshes in librsvg. Then we could
use
them
for graphics on Wikipedia and people would start to ask: "Why does
the
image look much better on Wikipedia than it does when rendered by
my
browser?"

Regards,
Eduard



------------------------------------------------------------
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Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
_______________________________________________
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is
ts/listinfo/inkscape-devel


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C R
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Re: Mesh gradient status and plea for help with testing.

C R
> @ C R double-clicking does add another column of nodes in that place. It may
> be more than what you bargained for, but I guess grid structure is what it's
> about ATM.

If I double-click on a mesh line it works for me, but clicking in a
space that is not on a line in my version of trunk does nothing... it
should (probably) add a row and a column to the mesh. It's not more
than I bargained for... it's a mesh after all.. I think the grid
structure is implied by that. :)

My 2p.
-C



>
>
> Copying an object with a mesh into a new document doesn't copy the mesh with
> it!
>
>
> BTW I was able to achieve this non-smooth pattern by moving nodes and
> handles (attached 2 screenshots). Is this expected or should it never
> happen?
>
> Mihaela aka prkos
>
>
> On 13.11.2016 16:20, C R wrote:
>
> Finally got time today to play with gradient meshes. First, I'd like
> to thank Tav for the amazing work. It's really awesome to see these
> make it into Inkscape, regardless of if they actually make it into the
> SVG 2 spec. I look forward to using them and showing them off to
> others interested in vector editing.
>
> I agree that click+drag should used for selecting nodes. This was
> insta-confusing for me as well. And it threw away my gradient on more
> than one occasion when I forgot, forcing me to undo and try again. I
> think it used to be alt+m to add a mesh gradient... but it doesn't
> seem to work anymore. Anyway, that hotkey was fine for a quick-mesh.
>
> There does not seem to be any easy way to select more than one node if
> they overlap eachother, like they do at the center and left-hand side
> of the conical gradient. I would definitely try to make click-drag
> lasso or box select node instead of applying a gradient. Even if we
> wanted to use it for adding a gradient, I would expect a linear
> gradient to be added rather than mesh gradient, and to be done in
> real-time based on the two points (initial click-hold is the first end
> of the gradient, and then release to indicate the last point of the
> linear gradient).
>
> For the conical gradient, I'd lock all the points that overlap
> together, as moving one node from the middle makes it not-so conical
> anymore. :) Thus, moving the central node would move the ones under it
> too to move the center/tip of the cone, and preserve the cone
> shape/effect.
>
> Also, when you apply a mesh gradient fill to a shape, I would
> auto-switch to the mesh gradient tool, so the user can see all the
> mesh options at the top of the screen.
>
> There does not seem to be a method of adding a node to an arbitrary
> position, which forces the user to increase the mesh size to get more
> nodes. A double-click should add more mesh-node geometry so the user
> can designate a different colour at the position clicked (following
> the convention used in linear gradient editing).
>
> That's my first impression anyway. :) Excellent work as always, Tav. I
> look forward to seeing it evolve into a staple of vector editing in
> Inkscape.
>
> -C
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 6:43 PM, Jabier Arraiza <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> I think the goal is a js.polifill to inlude and render ok the SVG as
> Tav says, I search a bit and dont find :(. To process a PNG we have
> thumb file now in uploads, let the user use.
>
> Cheers, Jabier.
>
>
> On Wed, 2016-11-09 at 12:55 -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
>
> If we want the website to generate proper inkscape rendered pngs,
> then
> we'll need to get inkscape running on a CentOS 6 machine. Which is
> really where that whole thing falls apart. All the deps are so old
> that
> it makes the problem really hard.
>
> But, if it's possible to package inkscape 0.92 into a self contained
> opt type package, maybe it would be possible?
>
> I'd like to hear the thoughts of the more experenced package people
> for
> Linux.
>
> Martin,
>
> On Wed, 2016-11-09 at 18:13 +0100, Jabier Arraiza wrote:
>
> Hi to all!
>
> I try to upload to inkscape.org a resource done time ago -very
> simple-
> with mesh, and show as white doc.
>
> https://inkscape.org/en/~jabiertxof/%E2%98%85logo-mesh
>
> Now compiling new changes but in my version of trunk I coulent copy
> a
> mesh gradient between documents.
>
> Cheers, Jabier.
>
>
> On Wed, 2016-11-09 at 16:46 +0000, C R wrote:
> Do you think that is enough? We need to show them and the community
> the
> advantages of the feature to get enough backing for it, don't you
> think?
>
> -C
>
> On 9 Nov 2016 4:22 pm, "Victor Westmann" <[hidden email]
>
> wrote:
>
>
> Then we all go together to Google Chrome and mozilla firefox and
> fill
> the
> feature request with this featute
>
> On Nov 9, 2016 2:47 AM, "C R" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Okay, then we need video of how gradient meshes help make producing
> vector art faster and better. And show the clear advantages of
> having
> it
> renderable as vector in browser which eliminates the need for
> processing it
> into done other format in the first place.
>
> -C
>
> On 9 Nov 2016 9:39 am, "Eduard Braun" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Am 09.11.2016 um 09:00 schrieb C R:
>
>
>
> I think we should leverage our community power and redo some of the
> more popular Wikipedia graphics with gradient meshes. If the
> graphics
> are
> clearly better, we should be able to make a better case for meshes
> in
> svg
> 2. Maybe hold some sort of contest for producing the best gradient
> mesh
> alternative graphics each month (ongoing).
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
> That won't work...
> SVGs on Wikipedia are never directly sent to the users browser but
> instead are always pre-rendered by Wikimedia Servers using librsvg
> (which
> to the best of my knowledge does not have any gradient mesh
> support).
>
> Therefore including gradient meshes in Wikipedia graphics would
> basically break them and would send the opposite message to people
> (like
> with flowRegions from flowed text which renders as black rectangles
> which
> is mostly blamed on Inkscape being "not standard conformant").
>
> The case would look completely different if somebody took on the
> challenge to implement gradient meshes in librsvg. Then we could
> use
> them
> for graphics on Wikipedia and people would start to ask: "Why does
> the
> image look much better on Wikipedia than it does when rendered by
> my
> browser?"
>
> Regards,
> Eduard
>
>
>
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Re: Mesh gradient status and plea for help with testing.

Sebastian Zartner
In reply to this post by Sebastian Zartner
It took a bit, though here's my feedback.
Generally the mesh gradient tool already works very well. So, congratulations and thank you a lot for that!

Though I have several smaller and bigger remarks on it:

- Double-clicking path with gradient tool selected causes program crash
  If you select the gradient tool and double-click a path to devide a row or column, the program crashes.

- Toggling sides between beziers and lines or making them elliptical deselects them
  When multiple corner nodes are selected and you toggle the sides between beziers and lines or make them elliptical, the selection of the nodes is removed. I'd expect the selection to be kept.

- Edges display update delayed
  While dragging around the nodes the display of the mesh is updated immediately, though the display of the mesh sides is updated with a delay. It would be better UX if they were updated instantenously

- Alt+B doesn't work
  The shortcut Alt+B to toggle the selected sides doesn't seem to work.

- Hard to distinguish nodes and handles
  With the only difference being the form of the node, corner nodes and bezier handles are hard to distinguish. A different color for corner nodes (like within the vector tool) would improve that.

- Hard to associate handles with nodes
  When bezier handles are near to each other it is hard to distinguish which one belongs to which corner node. Therefore bezier handles and their related corner nodes should be connected through a line like it's done within the vector tool.

- Dividing rows/columns requires a corner node to be selected
  To devide a row or column through a double-click requires at least one corner node to be selected. This is an unnecessary restriction and should be lifted.

- Snapping and preserving angle via Ctrl or Ctrl+Alt doesn't work
  The status message says that Ctrl allows to snap the angle and Ctrl+Alt to preserve the angle while editing the mesh (like within other tools), though they don't work.

- Status message wrong regarding Ctrl+Shift
  The status message says that Ctrl+Shift allows to scale around a center, though this doesn't apply to mesh gradients, or does it?

- Mesh tool is separate from other gradients
  The mesh gradient tool is just another type of gradient, so it should be part of the existing gradient tool instead of having a separate button within the toolbar.

- Linear and radial gradient tool allows to change mesh gradients but not vice versa
  When the linear and radial gradient tool is selected, you can also change mesh gradients, but when the mesh gradient tool is selected, you cannot edit linear or radial gradients. This inconsistency should be removed, i.e. you should always be able to edit the gradients.
  This goes hand in hand with the above idea of integrating the mesh tool into the existing gradient tool. (This also applies to conical gradients.)

- Replacing mesh gradients by another gradient type requires to switch to Fill and Stroke
  Unlike when switching between linear and radial gradients, to replace a mesh gradient by another gradient, you need to switch to the Fill and Stroke dialog.
  This is another part of integrating the mesh tool into the existing gradient tool. (This also applies to conical gradients.)

- Creating a mesh requires dragging
  To create a mesh you need to drag the mouse a little. It would be better if a simple click would create a default mesh (spanning over the whole bounding box of the object) and dragging would allow to put up a mesh like creating an object.
 
- Clicking inside object hides mesh
  The display of the mesh gradient is toggled when clicking inside the related object. This is different to the behavior of linear and radial gradients, which stay visible when clicking into the object. This is also an issue regarding the separation of rows and columns via double click, because the mesh gets hidden afterwards.

- Toggling tensor points only switches the colors of the selected corner nodes to a mixed color (there are no tensor handles)
  There are no tensor handles displayed on Alt+G. The only thing I see is that the colors of the selected corner nodes get a mixed color applied. (Though I'm not sure how this feature is expected to work.)
 
- Color sampling hard to understand without example
  Picking the colors from underneath the mesh is a very cool feature, though it took me a bit to understand how it works. I'm not sure whether this can be removed in the UI, but this should at least be described in more detail within the wiki.

- Show shortcuts in button tooltips
  Several buttons within the mesh toolbar have shortcuts applied. Those shortcuts should be displayed within their tooltips.

For what it's worth, I tested the 64-bit version on Windows 7.

Thanks again for this great tool! I really hope mesh gradients get traction among the browser vendors!

Sebastian

On 9 November 2016 at 09:50, Sebastian Zartner <[hidden email]> wrote:
Mesh gradients are really great!

On 8 November 2016 at 19:47, Tavmjong Bah <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

Mesh gradients are included in SVG 2 but their remaining in the
specification is on shaky grounds.[1] We need to generate suitable SVG
content using meshes in order to generate enough buzz to get the
browser vendors to take notice.

For what it's worth, the related Firefox (Gecko) bug is here:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1238882
 
With that goal in mind, we would like
see meshes enabled in the 0.92.x release but need help with testing. 

I've just checked into trunk the final GUI improvements to mesh
handling. Please test and give me feedback. (And share any cool content
you creat!) I will be merging the changes into 0.92.x in the next
couple of days. For more information on how to use meshes see:

  http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Mesh_Gradients

I didn't have time yet to try the UI changes out, though I hope to do so the next days to provide some feedback.

Best regards,

Sebastian


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Re: Mesh gradient status and plea for help with testing.

mihaela.jurkovic
On 16.11.2016 09:55, Sebastian Zartner wrote:
It took a bit, though here's my feedback.
Generally the mesh gradient tool already works very well. So, congratulations and thank you a lot for that!

Though I have several smaller and bigger remarks on it:

- Double-clicking path with gradient tool selected causes program crash
  If you select the gradient tool and double-click a path to devide a row or column, the program crashes.
I can confirm on linux pre3


- Toggling sides between beziers and lines or making them elliptical deselects them
  When multiple corner nodes are selected and you toggle the sides between beziers and lines or make them elliptical, the selection of the nodes is removed. I'd expect the selection to be kept.
+1 for keeping the selection


- Edges display update delayed
  While dragging around the nodes the display of the mesh is updated immediately, though the display of the mesh sides is updated with a delay. It would be better UX if they were updated instantenously

- Alt+B doesn't work
  The shortcut Alt+B to toggle the selected sides doesn't seem to work.
For me Alt + B works. Does your Alt key usually works as expected in Inkscape (to select objects behind objects on top)?


- Hard to distinguish nodes and handles
  With the only difference being the form of the node, corner nodes and bezier handles are hard to distinguish. A different color for corner nodes (like within the vector tool) would improve that.
+1


- Hard to associate handles with nodes
  When bezier handles are near to each other it is hard to distinguish which one belongs to which corner node. Therefore bezier handles and their related corner nodes should be connected through a line like it's done within the vector tool.
I can imagine showing all those lines might be visually too confusing too. Maybe if the lines are super thin, dashed with low density, or only flash briefly when hovering over the handle.


- Dividing rows/columns requires a corner node to be selected
  To devide a row or column through a double-click requires at least one corner node to be selected. This is an unnecessary restriction and should be lifted.
+1


- Snapping and preserving angle via Ctrl or Ctrl+Alt doesn't work
  The status message says that Ctrl allows to snap the angle and Ctrl+Alt to preserve the angle while editing the mesh (like within other tools), though they don't work.

- Status message wrong regarding Ctrl+Shift
  The status message says that Ctrl+Shift allows to scale around a center, though this doesn't apply to mesh gradients, or does it?
+1


- Mesh tool is separate from other gradients
  The mesh gradient tool is just another type of gradient, so it should be part of the existing gradient tool instead of having a separate button within the toolbar.
+1 although it takes some effort to figure out the toolbar options, because not all of them are the same between them.


- Linear and radial gradient tool allows to change mesh gradients but not vice versa
  When the linear and radial gradient tool is selected, you can also change mesh gradients, but when the mesh gradient tool is selected, you cannot edit linear or radial gradients. This inconsistency should be removed, i.e. you should always be able to edit the gradients.
  This goes hand in hand with the above idea of integrating the mesh tool into the existing gradient tool. (This also applies to conical gradients.)
I filed a bug related to this:

Mesh gradient node/handles statusbar text bug
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1641445


- Replacing mesh gradients by another gradient type requires to switch to Fill and Stroke
  Unlike when switching between linear and radial gradients, to replace a mesh gradient by another gradient, you need to switch to the Fill and Stroke dialog.
  This is another part of integrating the mesh tool into the existing gradient tool. (This also applies to conical gradients.)

- Creating a mesh requires dragging
  To create a mesh you need to drag the mouse a little. It would be better if a simple click would create a default mesh (spanning over the whole bounding box of the object) and dragging would allow to put up a mesh like creating an object.
Not sure about this, dragging to add mesh was a bit odd for me too, but consistency between tools is the more important, so whatever works for both tools.

 
- Clicking inside object hides mesh
  The display of the mesh gradient is toggled when clicking inside the related object. This is different to the behavior of linear and radial gradients, which stay visible when clicking into the object. This is also an issue regarding the separation of rows and columns via double click, because the mesh gets hidden afterwards.
+1 for consistency between tools


- Toggling tensor points only switches the colors of the selected corner nodes to a mixed color (there are no tensor handles)
  There are no tensor handles displayed on Alt+G. The only thing I see is that the colors of the selected corner nodes get a mixed color applied. (Though I'm not sure how this feature is expected to work.)
Tensor handles don't show up for me either in pre3, but they do in Inkscape 0.92+devel 15229
Maybe they were just disabled for pre3.

 
- Color sampling hard to understand without example
  Picking the colors from underneath the mesh is a very cool feature, though it took me a bit to understand how it works. I'm not sure whether this can be removed in the UI, but this should at least be described in more detail within the wiki.

- Show shortcuts in button tooltips
  Several buttons within the mesh toolbar have shortcuts applied. Those shortcuts should be displayed within their tooltips.
+1 add all the shortcuts!

Mihaela


For what it's worth, I tested the 64-bit version on Windows 7.

Thanks again for this great tool! I really hope mesh gradients get traction among the browser vendors!

Sebastian

On 9 November 2016 at 09:50, Sebastian Zartner <[hidden email]> wrote:
Mesh gradients are really great!

On 8 November 2016 at 19:47, Tavmjong Bah <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

Mesh gradients are included in SVG 2 but their remaining in the
specification is on shaky grounds.[1] We need to generate suitable SVG
content using meshes in order to generate enough buzz to get the
browser vendors to take notice.

For what it's worth, the related Firefox (Gecko) bug is here:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1238882
 
With that goal in mind, we would like
see meshes enabled in the 0.92.x release but need help with testing. 

I've just checked into trunk the final GUI improvements to mesh
handling. Please test and give me feedback. (And share any cool content
you creat!) I will be merging the changes into 0.92.x in the next
couple of days. For more information on how to use meshes see:

  http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Mesh_Gradients

I didn't have time yet to try the UI changes out, though I hope to do so the next days to provide some feedback.

Best regards,

Sebastian



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Re: Mesh gradient status and plea for help with testing.

Tavmjong Bah
In reply to this post by Sebastian Zartner

Thanks for your feedback!

On Wed, 2016-11-16 at 09:55 +0100, Sebastian Zartner wrote:

> It took a bit, though here's my feedback.
> Generally the mesh gradient tool already works very well. So,
> congratulations and thank you a lot for that!
>
> Though I have several smaller and bigger remarks on it:
>
> - Double-clicking path with gradient tool selected causes program
> crash
>   If you select the gradient tool and double-click a path to devide a
> row or column, the program crashes.

Will fix.

> - Toggling sides between beziers and lines or making them elliptical
> deselects them
>   When multiple corner nodes are selected and you toggle the sides
> between beziers and lines or make them elliptical, the selection of
> the nodes is removed. I'd expect the selection to be kept.

Will try to fix but not high priority at the moment.

> - Edges display update delayed
>   While dragging around the nodes the display of the mesh is updated
> immediately, though the display of the mesh sides is updated with a
> delay. It would be better UX if they were updated instantenously

True. But may not be trivial to fix.

> - Alt+B doesn't work
>   The shortcut Alt+B to toggle the selected sides doesn't seem to
> work.

Will try to fix.

> - Hard to distinguish nodes and handles
>   With the only difference being the form of the node, corner nodes
> and bezier handles are hard to distinguish. A different color for
> corner nodes (like within the vector tool) would improve that.

Do you mean the Node tool? (Gray for nodes. Clear for handles?)

> - Hard to associate handles with nodes
>   When bezier handles are near to each other it is hard to
> distinguish which one belongs to which corner node. Therefore bezier
> handles and their related corner nodes should be connected through a
> line like it's done within the vector tool.

I am working on a solution where hovering over a corner node will
temporarily highlight the associated handles. Drawing lines doesn't
work well when the mesh is dense. Jabier has a branch that changes the
color of the handles for selected corner nodes. If I recall correctly
(I am having trouble compiling it now) it worked well for sparse meshes
but not well for dense meshes.

> - Dividing rows/columns requires a corner node to be selected
>   To devide a row or column through a double-click requires at least
> one corner node to be selected. This is an unnecessary restriction
> and should be lifted.

This is a bug. It appears that the first click of the double-click
often deselects the object and the second click reselects it.

> - Snapping and preserving angle via Ctrl or Ctrl+Alt doesn't work
>   The status message says that Ctrl allows to snap the angle and
> Ctrl+Alt to preserve the angle while editing the mesh (like within
> other tools), though they don't work.

These are unimplemented features. The message should be commented out.

> - Status message wrong regarding Ctrl+Shift
>   The status message says that Ctrl+Shift allows to scale around a
> center, though this doesn't apply to mesh gradients, or does it?

Again, an unimplemented features. The message should be commented out.

> - Mesh tool is separate from other gradients
>   The mesh gradient tool is just another type of gradient, so it
> should be part of the existing gradient tool instead of having a
> separate button within the toolbar.

This will be hard to do. The editing the mesh gradient acts quite
differently from the linear and radial gradients.

> - Linear and radial gradient tool allows to change mesh gradients but
> not vice versa
>   When the linear and radial gradient tool is selected, you can also
> change mesh gradients, but when the mesh gradient tool is selected,
> you cannot edit linear or radial gradients. This inconsistency should
> be removed, i.e. you should always be able to edit the gradients.
>   This goes hand in hand with the above idea of integrating the mesh
> tool into the existing gradient tool. (This also applies to conical
> gradients.)

This may be possible but may require a lot of work.

> - Replacing mesh gradients by another gradient type requires to
> switch to Fill and Stroke
>   Unlike when switching between linear and radial gradients, to
> replace a mesh gradient by another gradient, you need to switch to
> the Fill and Stroke dialog.
>   This is another part of integrating the mesh tool into the existing
> gradient tool. (This also applies to conical gradients.)

Will study.

> - Creating a mesh requires dragging
>   To create a mesh you need to drag the mouse a little. It would be
> better if a simple click would create a default mesh (spanning over
> the whole bounding box of the object) and dragging would allow to put
> up a mesh like creating an object.

Double clicking also creates a mesh. There was a reason a single click
doesn't work... I don't remember at the moment why.

> - Clicking inside object hides mesh
>   The display of the mesh gradient is toggled when clicking inside
> the related object. This is different to the behavior of linear and
> radial gradients, which stay visible when clicking into the object.
> This is also an issue regarding the separation of rows and columns
> via double click, because the mesh gets hidden afterwards.

Will study.

> - Toggling tensor points only switches the colors of the selected
> corner nodes to a mixed color (there are no tensor handles)
>   There are no tensor handles displayed on Alt+G. The only thing I
> see is that the colors of the selected corner nodes get a mixed color
> applied. (Though I'm not sure how this feature is expected to work.)

Enabling tensor points adds four new handles to each patch that control
how color flows inside the patch. They should not be effecting the
corner node color.

Tensor points will be disabled. They were an experimental feature.

> - Color sampling hard to understand without example
>   Picking the colors from underneath the mesh is a very cool feature,
> though it took me a bit to understand how it works. I'm not sure
> whether this can be removed in the UI, but this should at least be
> described in more detail within the wiki.

Will update the description (but low priority at moment).

> - Show shortcuts in button tooltips
>   Several buttons within the mesh toolbar have shortcuts applied.
> Those shortcuts should be displayed within their tooltips.

Will do (but low priority at moment).

> For what it's worth, I tested the 64-bit version on Windows 7.
>
> Thanks again for this great tool! I really hope mesh gradients get
> traction among the browser vendors!

Thanks! Glad you liked it.

Tav

> Sebastian
>


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Re: Mesh gradient status and plea for help with testing.

Jabier Arraiza
On Thu, 2016-11-17 at 11:07 +0100, Tavmjong Bah wrote:
> I am working on a solution where hovering over a corner node will
> temporarily highlight the associated handles. Drawing lines doesn't
> work well when the mesh is dense. Jabier has a branch that changes
> the
> color of the handles for selected corner nodes. If I recall correctly
> (I am having trouble compiling it now) it worked well for sparse
> meshes
> but not well for dense meshes.

You want me to update the branch to current trunk? Is a bit outdated.

Cheers, Jabier.


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Re: Mesh gradient status and plea for help with testing.

Vladimir Savic-3
In reply to this post by Tavmjong Bah
On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Tavmjong Bah <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thanks for your feedback!
>
> On Wed, 2016-11-16 at 09:55 +0100, Sebastian Zartner wrote:
>> It took a bit, though here's my feedback.
>> Generally the mesh gradient tool already works very well. So,
>> congratulations and thank you a lot for that!

>> - Hard to associate handles with nodes
>>   When bezier handles are near to each other it is hard to
>> distinguish which one belongs to which corner node. Therefore bezier
>> handles and their related corner nodes should be connected through a
>> line like it's done within the vector tool.
>
> I am working on a solution where hovering over a corner node will
> temporarily highlight the associated handles. Drawing lines doesn't
> work well when the mesh is dense. Jabier has a branch that changes the
> color of the handles for selected corner nodes. If I recall correctly
> (I am having trouble compiling it now) it worked well for sparse meshes
> but not well for dense meshes.

Looking forward to that. You could try improving that, Jabier.


>> - Mesh tool is separate from other gradients
>>   The mesh gradient tool is just another type of gradient, so it
>> should be part of the existing gradient tool instead of having a
>> separate button within the toolbar.
>
> This will be hard to do. The editing the mesh gradient acts quite
> differently from the linear and radial gradients.

Jabier had made a bunch of improvements related to hiding widgets that
are conceptually N/A. It works great here! Take a look at Spray tool
mode change behavior (Change mode from Spray copies -> Spray objects
into single path). It hides what is unrelated to currently selected
mode. I'd move Create Mesh Gradient and Create Conical Gradient just
behind Create Linear Gradient and Create Radial Gradient. Followed by
what it affects (Fill or Stroke). Then change all other fields related
to what type of gradient is selected in the first place.

>> - Linear and radial gradient tool allows to change mesh gradients but
>> not vice versa
>>   When the linear and radial gradient tool is selected, you can also
>> change mesh gradients, but when the mesh gradient tool is selected,
>> you cannot edit linear or radial gradients. This inconsistency should
>> be removed, i.e. you should always be able to edit the gradients.
>>   This goes hand in hand with the above idea of integrating the mesh
>> tool into the existing gradient tool. (This also applies to conical
>> gradients.)
>
> This may be possible but may require a lot of work.

I am for removing possibility to change gradients outside gradient
tool. It is easy enough to learn shortcuts and we already have
dedicated tool for that job.


> Thanks! Glad you liked it.
>
> Tav
>
>> Sebastian
>>

This tool improves Inkscape's value as illustrating tool sooo much...
Thanks, Tav!

Vlada

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