Quantcast

Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
18 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Marc Jeanmougin
Hi all,

I recently discussed on IRC with dwcares from Miscrosoft who wants to
help us simplify precesses on windows.

Here is his email:

===
David Washington from Microsoft here. Earlier this afternoon I had
conversation with Marc about potentially publishing  the Inkscape app to
the Windows Store, the app store for Windows 10 PCs.

The Windows Store now supports publishing Win32 Desktop apps with little
or no code change using the Windows Desktop Bridge. Taking advantage of
the Windows Desktop Bridge and Distributing through the Windows Store
also  provides simplified options for  automated updates, easy install
and uninstall, and provides a new distribution path for folks who may
have not found Inkscape before.

Our team has identified Inkscape as a top desktop app that we’d love to
see in the Windows Store. Given this we have some resources to help with
the process of getting this ported using the Windows Desktop Bridge and
published to the Windows Store. The process itself is lightweight, and
our team is equipped help walk you through getting it ported and
published. We’ve done some early investigation on the Inkscape binaries
and we haven’t identified any issues getting it published.

If this is something that seems interesting to you, we can get together
on the phone and talk through the details for the next steps of getting
this published. If you’d rather make progress in email/IRC, we’re happy
to  accommodate what works for your team. We’re prepared to work with
you on getting this published as early as next week.

I look forward to working together. I’ve included some folks from my
team who will be helping you.

Thanks much,
David Washington
Microsoft | Developer Experience | 206-605-2062
===

Eduard, Nicolas or Partha, iirc you're the ones doing stuff on windows,
could you take it from here if it seems interesting ?

Thanks,

--
Mc

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Martin Owens-2
Thanks Mc,

This is very interesting.

I'd actually be interested in asking for a price per install. Everyone
thinks that Inkscape is 'for free', but actually it's more important
that's it's Free Software. 

Say if the price for inkscape is $10 on the windows store. Windows is
our biggest market, there's an opportunity there even if most people
forgo the store and download from us directly.

Thoughts?

Best Regards, Martin Owens

On Wed, 2017-03-29 at 00:30 +0200, Marc Jeanmougin wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I recently discussed on IRC with dwcares from Miscrosoft who wants to
> help us simplify precesses on windows.
>
> Here is his email:
>
> ===
> David Washington from Microsoft here. Earlier this afternoon I had
> conversation with Marc about potentially publishing  the Inkscape app
> to
> the Windows Store, the app store for Windows 10 PCs.
>
> The Windows Store now supports publishing Win32 Desktop apps with
> little
> or no code change using the Windows Desktop Bridge. Taking advantage
> of
> the Windows Desktop Bridge and Distributing through the Windows Store
> also  provides simplified options for  automated updates, easy
> install
> and uninstall, and provides a new distribution path for folks who may
> have not found Inkscape before.
>
> Our team has identified Inkscape as a top desktop app that we’d love
> to
> see in the Windows Store. Given this we have some resources to help
> with
> the process of getting this ported using the Windows Desktop Bridge
> and
> published to the Windows Store. The process itself is lightweight,
> and
> our team is equipped help walk you through getting it ported and
> published. We’ve done some early investigation on the Inkscape
> binaries
> and we haven’t identified any issues getting it published.
>
> If this is something that seems interesting to you, we can get
> together
> on the phone and talk through the details for the next steps of
> getting
> this published. If you’d rather make progress in email/IRC, we’re
> happy
> to  accommodate what works for your team. We’re prepared to work with
> you on getting this published as early as next week.
>
> I look forward to working together. I’ve included some folks from my
> team who will be helping you.
>
> Thanks much,
> David Washington
> Microsoft | Developer Experience | 206-605-2062
> ===
>
> Eduard, Nicolas or Partha, iirc you're the ones doing stuff on
> windows,
> could you take it from here if it seems interesting ?
>
> Thanks,
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Miguel Lopez

Hi David Washington,

Since Inkscape is already marketed as a free software, putting this out there with a price just might give Inkscape the impression that it may no longer be free, and that is a issue for the reputation of Inkscape for many people, but however that concern can be minimized. To begin with, one has to find a way to minimize that problem. To start with a suggestion, let's start with a hypothetical. If one were to put a price on the software and put it on a store, then Inkscape should have some sort of additional features that one must pay to have with assurance that the money being paid for additional features is a donation to support Inkscape development, but Inkscape should remain free to download via Windows Store. Some additional features can be cloud saving, and exporting to Microsoft Office programs. Microsoft Office programs don't really do well rendering Inkscape SVG, but I'm sure this can be considered later on if Microsoft wants to put this program on the store. I'm sure a lot of people would pay to have better SVG rendering support for Microsoft Office, and this might be the first step for that, and this also might encourage open-source office programs to render Inkscape SVG better (That is if they even bother with that at all)

This can indeed be a start for better SVG support for Office programs, and cloud saving in Inkscape with Microsoft server, better program integration support, even better SVG rendering on the web, and of course, more awareness of Inkscape. There also might be more incentive for Inkscape to have better mobile support as a result of this. Essentially, development of Inkscape can go forward at a faster rate. Come to think of it, I think I support the idea of a price provided the price is only for additional features. I hope to see improvement on SVG support everywhere as a result of this were if this were to go forward, and as well as improvements on Inkscape considering that Inkscape development is very slow.

Thanks,

Miguel Lopez

On 3/28/2017 9:24 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
Thanks Mc,

This is very interesting.

I'd actually be interested in asking for a price per install. Everyone
thinks that Inkscape is 'for free', but actually it's more important
that's it's Free Software. 

Say if the price for inkscape is $10 on the windows store. Windows is
our biggest market, there's an opportunity there even if most people
forgo the store and download from us directly.

Thoughts?

Best Regards, Martin Owens

On Wed, 2017-03-29 at 00:30 +0200, Marc Jeanmougin wrote:
Hi all,

I recently discussed on IRC with dwcares from Miscrosoft who wants to
help us simplify precesses on windows.

Here is his email:

===
David Washington from Microsoft here. Earlier this afternoon I had
conversation with Marc about potentially publishing  the Inkscape app
to
the Windows Store, the app store for Windows 10 PCs.

The Windows Store now supports publishing Win32 Desktop apps with
little
or no code change using the Windows Desktop Bridge. Taking advantage
of
the Windows Desktop Bridge and Distributing through the Windows Store
also  provides simplified options for  automated updates, easy
install
and uninstall, and provides a new distribution path for folks who may
have not found Inkscape before.

Our team has identified Inkscape as a top desktop app that we’d love
to
see in the Windows Store. Given this we have some resources to help
with
the process of getting this ported using the Windows Desktop Bridge
and
published to the Windows Store. The process itself is lightweight,
and
our team is equipped help walk you through getting it ported and
published. We’ve done some early investigation on the Inkscape
binaries
and we haven’t identified any issues getting it published.

If this is something that seems interesting to you, we can get
together
on the phone and talk through the details for the next steps of
getting
this published. If you’d rather make progress in email/IRC, we’re
happy
to  accommodate what works for your team. We’re prepared to work with
you on getting this published as early as next week.

I look forward to working together. I’ve included some folks from my
team who will be helping you.

Thanks much,
David Washington
Microsoft | Developer Experience | 206-605-2062
===

Eduard, Nicolas or Partha, iirc you're the ones doing stuff on
windows,
could you take it from here if it seems interesting ?

Thanks,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

objarni
Is it possible to do a suggested donation via the store instead...? That defaults to $10? This would be similar to the open source launcher for Windows, Launchy. 



On 29 Mar 2017 07:25, "Miguel Lopez" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi David Washington,

Since Inkscape is already marketed as a free software, putting this out there with a price just might give Inkscape the impression that it may no longer be free, and that is a issue for the reputation of Inkscape for many people, but however that concern can be minimized. To begin with, one has to find a way to minimize that problem. To start with a suggestion, let's start with a hypothetical. If one were to put a price on the software and put it on a store, then Inkscape should have some sort of additional features that one must pay to have with assurance that the money being paid for additional features is a donation to support Inkscape development, but Inkscape should remain free to download via Windows Store. Some additional features can be cloud saving, and exporting to Microsoft Office programs. Microsoft Office programs don't really do well rendering Inkscape SVG, but I'm sure this can be considered later on if Microsoft wants to put this program on the store. I'm sure a lot of people would pay to have better SVG rendering support for Microsoft Office, and this might be the first step for that, and this also might encourage open-source office programs to render Inkscape SVG better (That is if they even bother with that at all)

This can indeed be a start for better SVG support for Office programs, and cloud saving in Inkscape with Microsoft server, better program integration support, even better SVG rendering on the web, and of course, more awareness of Inkscape. There also might be more incentive for Inkscape to have better mobile support as a result of this. Essentially, development of Inkscape can go forward at a faster rate. Come to think of it, I think I support the idea of a price provided the price is only for additional features. I hope to see improvement on SVG support everywhere as a result of this were if this were to go forward, and as well as improvements on Inkscape considering that Inkscape development is very slow.

Thanks,

Miguel Lopez

On 3/28/2017 9:24 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
Thanks Mc,

This is very interesting.

I'd actually be interested in asking for a price per install. Everyone
thinks that Inkscape is 'for free', but actually it's more important
that's it's Free Software. 

Say if the price for inkscape is $10 on the windows store. Windows is
our biggest market, there's an opportunity there even if most people
forgo the store and download from us directly.

Thoughts?

Best Regards, Martin Owens

On Wed, 2017-03-29 at 00:30 +0200, Marc Jeanmougin wrote:
Hi all,

I recently discussed on IRC with dwcares from Miscrosoft who wants to
help us simplify precesses on windows.

Here is his email:

===
David Washington from Microsoft here. Earlier this afternoon I had
conversation with Marc about potentially publishing  the Inkscape app
to
the Windows Store, the app store for Windows 10 PCs.

The Windows Store now supports publishing Win32 Desktop apps with
little
or no code change using the Windows Desktop Bridge. Taking advantage
of
the Windows Desktop Bridge and Distributing through the Windows Store
also  provides simplified options for  automated updates, easy
install
and uninstall, and provides a new distribution path for folks who may
have not found Inkscape before.

Our team has identified Inkscape as a top desktop app that we’d love
to
see in the Windows Store. Given this we have some resources to help
with
the process of getting this ported using the Windows Desktop Bridge
and
published to the Windows Store. The process itself is lightweight,
and
our team is equipped help walk you through getting it ported and
published. We’ve done some early investigation on the Inkscape
binaries
and we haven’t identified any issues getting it published.

If this is something that seems interesting to you, we can get
together
on the phone and talk through the details for the next steps of
getting
this published. If you’d rather make progress in email/IRC, we’re
happy
to  accommodate what works for your team. We’re prepared to work with
you on getting this published as early as next week.

I look forward to working together. I’ve included some folks from my
team who will be helping you.

Thanks much,
David Washington
Microsoft | Developer Experience | <a href="tel:(206)%20605-2062" value="+12066052062" target="_blank">206-605-2062
===

Eduard, Nicolas or Partha, iirc you're the ones doing stuff on
windows,
could you take it from here if it seems interesting ?

Thanks,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
C R
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

C R
My thought is we should do it for free for two reasons:

1. Exposure
2. So MS doesn't feel they can take a cut.

My 2p.
Also we should probably get Inkscape out of beta (1.0) then do a full blown kickstater if we want to make money for the project. 

My 2p

On 29 Mar 2017 6:32 a.m., "Olof Bjarnason" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Is it possible to do a suggested donation via the store instead...? That defaults to $10? This would be similar to the open source launcher for Windows, Launchy. 



On 29 Mar 2017 07:25, "Miguel Lopez" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi David Washington,

Since Inkscape is already marketed as a free software, putting this out there with a price just might give Inkscape the impression that it may no longer be free, and that is a issue for the reputation of Inkscape for many people, but however that concern can be minimized. To begin with, one has to find a way to minimize that problem. To start with a suggestion, let's start with a hypothetical. If one were to put a price on the software and put it on a store, then Inkscape should have some sort of additional features that one must pay to have with assurance that the money being paid for additional features is a donation to support Inkscape development, but Inkscape should remain free to download via Windows Store. Some additional features can be cloud saving, and exporting to Microsoft Office programs. Microsoft Office programs don't really do well rendering Inkscape SVG, but I'm sure this can be considered later on if Microsoft wants to put this program on the store. I'm sure a lot of people would pay to have better SVG rendering support for Microsoft Office, and this might be the first step for that, and this also might encourage open-source office programs to render Inkscape SVG better (That is if they even bother with that at all)

This can indeed be a start for better SVG support for Office programs, and cloud saving in Inkscape with Microsoft server, better program integration support, even better SVG rendering on the web, and of course, more awareness of Inkscape. There also might be more incentive for Inkscape to have better mobile support as a result of this. Essentially, development of Inkscape can go forward at a faster rate. Come to think of it, I think I support the idea of a price provided the price is only for additional features. I hope to see improvement on SVG support everywhere as a result of this were if this were to go forward, and as well as improvements on Inkscape considering that Inkscape development is very slow.

Thanks,

Miguel Lopez

On 3/28/2017 9:24 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
Thanks Mc,

This is very interesting.

I'd actually be interested in asking for a price per install. Everyone
thinks that Inkscape is 'for free', but actually it's more important
that's it's Free Software. 

Say if the price for inkscape is $10 on the windows store. Windows is
our biggest market, there's an opportunity there even if most people
forgo the store and download from us directly.

Thoughts?

Best Regards, Martin Owens

On Wed, 2017-03-29 at 00:30 +0200, Marc Jeanmougin wrote:
Hi all,

I recently discussed on IRC with dwcares from Miscrosoft who wants to
help us simplify precesses on windows.

Here is his email:

===
David Washington from Microsoft here. Earlier this afternoon I had
conversation with Marc about potentially publishing  the Inkscape app
to
the Windows Store, the app store for Windows 10 PCs.

The Windows Store now supports publishing Win32 Desktop apps with
little
or no code change using the Windows Desktop Bridge. Taking advantage
of
the Windows Desktop Bridge and Distributing through the Windows Store
also  provides simplified options for  automated updates, easy
install
and uninstall, and provides a new distribution path for folks who may
have not found Inkscape before.

Our team has identified Inkscape as a top desktop app that we’d love
to
see in the Windows Store. Given this we have some resources to help
with
the process of getting this ported using the Windows Desktop Bridge
and
published to the Windows Store. The process itself is lightweight,
and
our team is equipped help walk you through getting it ported and
published. We’ve done some early investigation on the Inkscape
binaries
and we haven’t identified any issues getting it published.

If this is something that seems interesting to you, we can get
together
on the phone and talk through the details for the next steps of
getting
this published. If you’d rather make progress in email/IRC, we’re
happy
to  accommodate what works for your team. We’re prepared to work with
you on getting this published as early as next week.

I look forward to working together. I’ve included some folks from my
team who will be helping you.

Thanks much,
David Washington
Microsoft | Developer Experience | <a href="tel:(206)%20605-2062" value="+12066052062" target="_blank">206-605-2062
===

Eduard, Nicolas or Partha, iirc you're the ones doing stuff on
windows,
could you take it from here if it seems interesting ?

Thanks,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Victor Westmann
+1 for kickstarter with a clear roadmap with new features (or bug fixing for greater stability and speed).



--Victor Westmann

2017-03-28 23:22 GMT-07:00 C R <[hidden email]>:
My thought is we should do it for free for two reasons:

1. Exposure
2. So MS doesn't feel they can take a cut.

My 2p.
Also we should probably get Inkscape out of beta (1.0) then do a full blown kickstater if we want to make money for the project. 

My 2p

On 29 Mar 2017 6:32 a.m., "Olof Bjarnason" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Is it possible to do a suggested donation via the store instead...? That defaults to $10? This would be similar to the open source launcher for Windows, Launchy. 



On 29 Mar 2017 07:25, "Miguel Lopez" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi David Washington,

Since Inkscape is already marketed as a free software, putting this out there with a price just might give Inkscape the impression that it may no longer be free, and that is a issue for the reputation of Inkscape for many people, but however that concern can be minimized. To begin with, one has to find a way to minimize that problem. To start with a suggestion, let's start with a hypothetical. If one were to put a price on the software and put it on a store, then Inkscape should have some sort of additional features that one must pay to have with assurance that the money being paid for additional features is a donation to support Inkscape development, but Inkscape should remain free to download via Windows Store. Some additional features can be cloud saving, and exporting to Microsoft Office programs. Microsoft Office programs don't really do well rendering Inkscape SVG, but I'm sure this can be considered later on if Microsoft wants to put this program on the store. I'm sure a lot of people would pay to have better SVG rendering support for Microsoft Office, and this might be the first step for that, and this also might encourage open-source office programs to render Inkscape SVG better (That is if they even bother with that at all)

This can indeed be a start for better SVG support for Office programs, and cloud saving in Inkscape with Microsoft server, better program integration support, even better SVG rendering on the web, and of course, more awareness of Inkscape. There also might be more incentive for Inkscape to have better mobile support as a result of this. Essentially, development of Inkscape can go forward at a faster rate. Come to think of it, I think I support the idea of a price provided the price is only for additional features. I hope to see improvement on SVG support everywhere as a result of this were if this were to go forward, and as well as improvements on Inkscape considering that Inkscape development is very slow.

Thanks,

Miguel Lopez

On 3/28/2017 9:24 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
Thanks Mc,

This is very interesting.

I'd actually be interested in asking for a price per install. Everyone
thinks that Inkscape is 'for free', but actually it's more important
that's it's Free Software. 

Say if the price for inkscape is $10 on the windows store. Windows is
our biggest market, there's an opportunity there even if most people
forgo the store and download from us directly.

Thoughts?

Best Regards, Martin Owens

On Wed, 2017-03-29 at 00:30 +0200, Marc Jeanmougin wrote:
Hi all,

I recently discussed on IRC with dwcares from Miscrosoft who wants to
help us simplify precesses on windows.

Here is his email:

===
David Washington from Microsoft here. Earlier this afternoon I had
conversation with Marc about potentially publishing  the Inkscape app
to
the Windows Store, the app store for Windows 10 PCs.

The Windows Store now supports publishing Win32 Desktop apps with
little
or no code change using the Windows Desktop Bridge. Taking advantage
of
the Windows Desktop Bridge and Distributing through the Windows Store
also  provides simplified options for  automated updates, easy
install
and uninstall, and provides a new distribution path for folks who may
have not found Inkscape before.

Our team has identified Inkscape as a top desktop app that we’d love
to
see in the Windows Store. Given this we have some resources to help
with
the process of getting this ported using the Windows Desktop Bridge
and
published to the Windows Store. The process itself is lightweight,
and
our team is equipped help walk you through getting it ported and
published. We’ve done some early investigation on the Inkscape
binaries
and we haven’t identified any issues getting it published.

If this is something that seems interesting to you, we can get
together
on the phone and talk through the details for the next steps of
getting
this published. If you’d rather make progress in email/IRC, we’re
happy
to  accommodate what works for your team. We’re prepared to work with
you on getting this published as early as next week.

I look forward to working together. I’ve included some folks from my
team who will be helping you.

Thanks much,
David Washington
Microsoft | Developer Experience | <a href="tel:(206)%20605-2062" value="+12066052062" target="_blank">206-605-2062
===

Eduard, Nicolas or Partha, iirc you're the ones doing stuff on
windows,
could you take it from here if it seems interesting ?

Thanks,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Marc Jeanmougin
In reply to this post by Miguel Lopez
Hi,

-> David did not suggest it should be a paying app, it was Martin. David
just offered help to put it up on windows store.

-> I'd be personally *very* *strongly* opposed to a paying app, the goal
is to increase outreach, not to make the less tech-savvy users that do
not know our website pay.

-> Being on the windows store is probably like being on the play store
for android, not an endorsement from MS or has any link or integration
with Office products, or any link with cloud saving. Just being
available via a simple store search in windows, maybe be featured as a
top (free) drawing app from time to time.

-> I guess we can put any description we'd like on the store page,
including a suggested donation with the website link.

-> Inkscape is not in beta^^

-> kickstarter does not magically solve things. It can be planned if
there is assurance that we will have the developer resources available
to deliver results (in this case, that we would have people familiar
with inkscape code ready to spend time paid full-time on the kickstarter).


--
Mc


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

signature.asc (201 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Eduard Braun
The way I see it, we should basically answer ourselves one question: Do we gain anything from offering Inkscape in the Windows store that would make it worth our while?
  • Personally I dislike everything App-related and although I use Windows 10 I've removed all apps and never use Windows store. From my point of view "apps" (and especially app stores) are one of the most stupid inventions of the 21st century, developed by people under the pretense of improved security and ease of use, but in the end mostly being a way to create a unified route for monetization where Microsoft/Google/whoever can get a piece of the cake on-the-fly while controlling which apps are made available in the first place, so I'd boycott it unless it would cause the project serious disadvantages (and I doubt it very much that this would be the case). But that's only my opinion...
  • From the Inkscape project's point of view I believe visibility is one of the biggest potential gains:
    People who otherwise might not stumble over Inkscape might do so if it was available on the Windows store.
    My question here would be: Does anybody believe this would be a considerable amount of users? As I said before I don't use the Windows store and I also don't know any people who do. As a result I actually doubt there would be a reasonable gain involved... But I might be wrong: Do others have a different impression? Is there any indication that whatever Microsoft has planned might change the situation in the near future? From the outreach it seems at least as if they were (desperately?) trying to make the Windows store more popular.
  • Apart from that I don't see many advantages (quite the opposite):
    • It would be yet another package that has to be maintained.
    • As far as I can see It would create installations incompatible to standalone installations as Windows apps seem to be designed as being self-contained without direct access to the file system.
    • The whole Windows Desktop Bridge adds yet another emulation layer, which obviously might influence performance  but more importantly could cause new bugs that would need a lot of effort to debug and we're already behind on Windows specific bugs as it is.
As Mc I'm strongly opposed to putting any price tag on Inkscape. Doing so would be the right approach if we wanted to handicap/penalize the Windows store on purpose (I know this from a few open source applications available from Google store for a fee while they're for free otherwise), but in that case I wouldn't bother putting Inkscape into the Windows store to start with.
Donations are obviously fine, but I don't think that such a discussion would be specific to the Windows store.

Regards,
Eduard


P.S. (Off topic but I have to mention it - maybe worth a second thread, though):
To all of you who seem to have dollars in your eyes: Does anybody of you have the impression that the speed of Inkscape's development is currently limited by money? Is any of the active developers paid? Would any of the active developers would want to be paid in order to invest more (spare) time into Inkscape? Where should this time come from? I honestly don't have the impression we have a reasonable idea on how to invest any potential money/donations that would be earned/raised in order to actually benefit feature development. (The one thing I see where money really is advantageous are hackfests. But then again one was just canceled because of lack of interest/time and I doubt money would have change much about that...)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Miguel Lopez

A small gain of people using it is still something. There is two apps that I use that are found on Microsoft Store. Netflix and Xodo. Xodo is actually pretty much like a free version of Adobe Acrobat DC (Look it up, and enjoy), and does exactly what I need in Adobe Acrobat DC as a future product designer. As someone said, I think there was some misunderstandings thanks to Martin Owens and my CFS and the aftermath, and I don't think the original guy who sent us the e-mail suggests we must put a price tag. So, I think we need to put into a vote, and send him a formal e-mail after we made our decision.


On 3/29/2017 7:53 AM, Eduard Braun wrote:
The way I see it, we should basically answer ourselves one question: Do we gain anything from offering Inkscape in the Windows store that would make it worth our while?
  • Personally I dislike everything App-related and although I use Windows 10 I've removed all apps and never use Windows store. From my point of view "apps" (and especially app stores) are one of the most stupid inventions of the 21st century, developed by people under the pretense of improved security and ease of use, but in the end mostly being a way to create a unified route for monetization where Microsoft/Google/whoever can get a piece of the cake on-the-fly while controlling which apps are made available in the first place, so I'd boycott it unless it would cause the project serious disadvantages (and I doubt it very much that this would be the case). But that's only my opinion...
  • From the Inkscape project's point of view I believe visibility is one of the biggest potential gains:
    People who otherwise might not stumble over Inkscape might do so if it was available on the Windows store.
    My question here would be: Does anybody believe this would be a considerable amount of users? As I said before I don't use the Windows store and I also don't know any people who do. As a result I actually doubt there would be a reasonable gain involved... But I might be wrong: Do others have a different impression? Is there any indication that whatever Microsoft has planned might change the situation in the near future? From the outreach it seems at least as if they were (desperately?) trying to make the Windows store more popular.
  • Apart from that I don't see many advantages (quite the opposite):
    • It would be yet another package that has to be maintained.
    • As far as I can see It would create installations incompatible to standalone installations as Windows apps seem to be designed as being self-contained without direct access to the file system.
    • The whole Windows Desktop Bridge adds yet another emulation layer, which obviously might influence performance  but more importantly could cause new bugs that would need a lot of effort to debug and we're already behind on Windows specific bugs as it is.
As Mc I'm strongly opposed to putting any price tag on Inkscape. Doing so would be the right approach if we wanted to handicap/penalize the Windows store on purpose (I know this from a few open source applications available from Google store for a fee while they're for free otherwise), but in that case I wouldn't bother putting Inkscape into the Windows store to start with.
Donations are obviously fine, but I don't think that such a discussion would be specific to the Windows store.

Regards,
Eduard


P.S. (Off topic but I have to mention it - maybe worth a second thread, though):
To all of you who seem to have dollars in your eyes: Does anybody of you have the impression that the speed of Inkscape's development is currently limited by money? Is any of the active developers paid? Would any of the active developers would want to be paid in order to invest more (spare) time into Inkscape? Where should this time come from? I honestly don't have the impression we have a reasonable idea on how to invest any potential money/donations that would be earned/raised in order to actually benefit feature development. (The one thing I see where money really is advantageous are hackfests. But then again one was just canceled because of lack of interest/time and I doubt money would have change much about that...)


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot


_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Eduard Braun
Am 29.03.2017 um 15:38 schrieb Miguel Lopez:
>
> A small gain of people using it is still something.
>
Yeah, but what gain would that be compared to people downloading
Inkscape from inkscape.org (where they also find all the other important
information they might need) like they are doing now?
Unless somebody says "all the cool kids download software exclusively
from the Windows store these days" (and assuming we want to have the
cool kids on board ;-) ) I don't see it.

> As someone said, I think there was some misunderstandings thanks to
> Martin Owens and my CFS and the aftermath, and I don't think the
> original guy who sent us the e-mail suggests we must put a price tag.
>
No misunderstanding from my side here, I just wanted to follow up on
some things people said before. The fact that the mention of "Windows
store" immediately triggers a discussion about taking money for Inkscape
kind of underlines my point from the last mail: App stores unnecessarily
encourage monetization of software - simply because it's easy to do so -
which in my opinion is being quite harmful to the FLOSS community and
therefore counters Inkscape's idealism.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Martin Owens-2
In reply to this post by Victor Westmann
We're never going to have the organisational soul sucking power needed
to run a kickstarter. They're really hard projects to run and require a
certain type of person to be able to sit there begging. Plus it's not
systematic, so you'd have to run it over and over.

I brought up money because it's something that we could find use for. I
see once against in this conversation we've brought out the old
chestnuts that Free Software should always be free beer.

I sigh greatly. I see Free Software shooting itself in the foot as it
aspires to no great change in it's economic reality. While people need
food and shelter, code needs money to be made. And while we must stay
on this road of demanding users be a grateful charity, we will not be
inspired to listen to user's wants.

Which is bad.

These apps stores need our content and they seek to control their
user's habitual access to software. We'd give it freely and retain no
value to maintain or improve our project, while they that call
themselves Microsoft, Apple and Debian get to control everything about
our project's appearance, cost and communication.

We've always been able to stomach the deal we get from Debian and
Fedora because their motives are pure while they do some harm to our
project's community by splitting us from our users, their user land is
a bright city of developers who theoretically can reach out beyond the
great package divide and clone our repository in reproprosity. 

Now Microsoft wan't to take advantage and offers nothing but fame and
glory? We have Millions of users already, Inkscape already has a
terrible exchange rate from user to donation or developer. I was at
LibrePlanet 2017 just this week and collected bags of gratitude from
everyone I met that Inkscape was an amazing thing. Our brand is good
and we should ask for more resources from our users to maintain this
project to a high standard.

If we are to be used, let us at least ask for some small token in
exchange.

Best Regards, Martin Owens


On Tue, 2017-03-28 at 23:31 -0700, Victor Westmann wrote:

> +1 for kickstarter with a clear roadmap with new features (or bug
> fixing for greater stability and speed).
>
>
>
> --Victor Westmann
>
> 2017-03-28 23:22 GMT-07:00 C R <[hidden email]>:
> > My thought is we should do it for free for two reasons:
> >
> > 1. Exposure
> > 2. So MS doesn't feel they can take a cut.
> >
> > My 2p.
> > Also we should probably get Inkscape out of beta (1.0) then do a
> > full blown kickstater if we want to make money for the project. 
> >
> > My 2p
> >
> > On 29 Mar 2017 6:32 a.m., "Olof Bjarnason" <[hidden email]
> > m> wrote:
> > > Is it possible to do a suggested donation via the store
> > > instead...? That defaults to $10? This would be similar to the
> > > open source launcher for Windows, Launchy. 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 29 Mar 2017 07:25, "Miguel Lopez" <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Hi David Washington,
> > > > Since Inkscape is already marketed as a free software, putting
> > > > this out there with a price just might give Inkscape the
> > > > impression that it may no longer be free, and that is a issue
> > > > for the reputation of Inkscape for many people, but however
> > > > that concern can be minimized. To begin with, one has to find a
> > > > way to minimize that problem. To start with a suggestion, let's
> > > > start with a hypothetical. If one were to put a price on the
> > > > software and put it on a store, then Inkscape should have some
> > > > sort of additional features that one must pay to have with
> > > > assurance that the money being paid for additional features is
> > > > a donation to support Inkscape development, but Inkscape should
> > > > remain free to download via Windows Store. Some additional
> > > > features can be cloud saving, and exporting to Microsoft Office
> > > > programs. Microsoft Office programs don't really do well
> > > > rendering Inkscape SVG, but I'm sure this can be considered
> > > > later on if Microsoft wants to put this program on the store.
> > > > I'm sure a lot of people would pay to have better SVG rendering
> > > > support for Microsoft Office, and this might be the first step
> > > > for that, and this also might encourage open-source office
> > > > programs to render Inkscape SVG better (That is if they even
> > > > bother with that at all).  
> > > > This can indeed be a start for better SVG support for Office
> > > > programs, and cloud saving in Inkscape with Microsoft server,
> > > > better program integration support, even better SVG rendering
> > > > on the web, and of course, more awareness of Inkscape. There
> > > > also might be more incentive for Inkscape to have better mobile
> > > > support as a result of this. Essentially, development of
> > > > Inkscape can go forward at a faster rate. Come to think of it,
> > > > I think I support the idea of a price provided the price is
> > > > only for additional features. I hope to see improvement on SVG
> > > > support everywhere as a result of this were if this were to go
> > > > forward, and as well as improvements on Inkscape considering
> > > > that Inkscape development is very slow.
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Miguel Lopez
> > > > On 3/28/2017 9:24 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
> > > > > Thanks Mc,
> > > > >
> > > > > This is very interesting.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd actually be interested in asking for a price per install.
> > > > > Everyone
> > > > > thinks that Inkscape is 'for free', but actually it's more
> > > > > important
> > > > > that's it's Free Software. 
> > > > >
> > > > > Say if the price for inkscape is $10 on the windows store.
> > > > > Windows is
> > > > > our biggest market, there's an opportunity there even if most
> > > > > people
> > > > > forgo the store and download from us directly.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thoughts?
> > > > >
> > > > > Best Regards, Martin Owens
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, 2017-03-29 at 00:30 +0200, Marc Jeanmougin wrote:
> > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I recently discussed on IRC with dwcares from Miscrosoft
> > > > > > who wants to
> > > > > > help us simplify precesses on windows.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Here is his email:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ===
> > > > > > David Washington from Microsoft here. Earlier this
> > > > > > afternoon I had
> > > > > > conversation with Marc about potentially publishing  the
> > > > > > Inkscape app
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > the Windows Store, the app store for Windows 10 PCs.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Windows Store now supports publishing Win32 Desktop
> > > > > > apps with
> > > > > > little
> > > > > > or no code change using the Windows Desktop Bridge. Taking
> > > > > > advantage
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > the Windows Desktop Bridge and Distributing through the
> > > > > > Windows Store
> > > > > > also  provides simplified options for  automated updates,
> > > > > > easy
> > > > > > install
> > > > > > and uninstall, and provides a new distribution path for
> > > > > > folks who may
> > > > > > have not found Inkscape before.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Our team has identified Inkscape as a top desktop app that
> > > > > > we’d love
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > see in the Windows Store. Given this we have some resources
> > > > > > to help
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > the process of getting this ported using the Windows
> > > > > > Desktop Bridge
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > published to the Windows Store. The process itself is
> > > > > > lightweight,
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > our team is equipped help walk you through getting it
> > > > > > ported and
> > > > > > published. We’ve done some early investigation on the
> > > > > > Inkscape
> > > > > > binaries
> > > > > > and we haven’t identified any issues getting it published.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If this is something that seems interesting to you, we can
> > > > > > get
> > > > > > together
> > > > > > on the phone and talk through the details for the next
> > > > > > steps of
> > > > > > getting
> > > > > > this published. If you’d rather make progress in email/IRC,
> > > > > > we’re
> > > > > > happy
> > > > > > to  accommodate what works for your team. We’re prepared to
> > > > > > work with
> > > > > > you on getting this published as early as next week.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I look forward to working together. I’ve included some
> > > > > > folks from my
> > > > > > team who will be helping you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks much,
> > > > > > David Washington
> > > > > > Microsoft | Developer Experience | 206-605-2062
> > > > > > ===
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Eduard, Nicolas or Partha, iirc you're the ones doing stuff
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > windows,
> > > > > > could you take it from here if it seems interesting ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > -----------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > -------------------
> > > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> > > > > most
> > > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Inkscape-devel mailing list
> > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
> > > >  
> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > -----------------
> > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Inkscape-devel mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
> > > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ---------------
> > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Inkscape-devel mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
> > >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------------
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > _______________________________________________
> > Inkscape-devel mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Brynn
In reply to this post by Martin Owens-2
Windows Desktop Bridge sounds like part of MS' route to the cloud, for Windows.
It won't be a choice for Windows users, in the future.  But that's a whole other
topic.

I wouldn't mind if Inkscape was available in the Windows store, as long as it's
still available for free.

I don't clearly understand why you're suggesting users pay a fee.  Certainly I
wouldn't want Inkscape to provide income for MS.  Even if Inkscape can be
offered in the Windows store for free, now, who's to say down the road, if MS
decides to "take a cut" for the privilege of being in the store.

If it's a donation to the Inkscape project, that's a different story.  Better
yet a "suggested donation".

But still, if users can still get Inkscape for free on the Inkscape website, why
should they pay for it somewhere else?  I'm not following your logic for
charging a fee.

All best,
brynn

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Owens
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 7:24 PM
To: Marc Jeanmougin ; Inkscape Devel List ; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Thanks Mc,

This is very interesting.

I'd actually be interested in asking for a price per install. Everyone
thinks that Inkscape is 'for free', but actually it's more important
that's it's Free Software.

Say if the price for inkscape is $10 on the windows store. Windows is
our biggest market, there's an opportunity there even if most people
forgo the store and download from us directly.

Thoughts?

Best Regards, Martin Owens

On Wed, 2017-03-29 at 00:30 +0200, Marc Jeanmougin wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I recently discussed on IRC with dwcares from Miscrosoft who wants to
> help us simplify precesses on windows.
>
> Here is his email:
>
> ===
> David Washington from Microsoft here. Earlier this afternoon I had
> conversation with Marc about potentially publishing  the Inkscape app
> to
> the Windows Store, the app store for Windows 10 PCs.
>
> The Windows Store now supports publishing Win32 Desktop apps with
> little
> or no code change using the Windows Desktop Bridge. Taking advantage
> of
> the Windows Desktop Bridge and Distributing through the Windows Store
> also  provides simplified options for  automated updates, easy
> install
> and uninstall, and provides a new distribution path for folks who may
> have not found Inkscape before.
>
> Our team has identified Inkscape as a top desktop app that we’d love
> to
> see in the Windows Store. Given this we have some resources to help
> with
> the process of getting this ported using the Windows Desktop Bridge
> and
> published to the Windows Store. The process itself is lightweight,
> and
> our team is equipped help walk you through getting it ported and
> published. We’ve done some early investigation on the Inkscape
> binaries
> and we haven’t identified any issues getting it published.
>
> If this is something that seems interesting to you, we can get
> together
> on the phone and talk through the details for the next steps of
> getting
> this published. If you’d rather make progress in email/IRC, we’re
> happy
> to  accommodate what works for your team. We’re prepared to work with
> you on getting this published as early as next week.
>
> I look forward to working together. I’ve included some folks from my
> team who will be helping you.
>
> Thanks much,
> David Washington
> Microsoft | Developer Experience | 206-605-2062
> ===
>
> Eduard, Nicolas or Partha, iirc you're the ones doing stuff on
> windows,
> could you take it from here if it seems interesting ?
>
> Thanks,
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Brynn
In reply to this post by Eduard Braun
Yes, the whole "app thing" is one of the several reasons I had for reverting
from Windows 10 back to Windows 7.  I was already planning a shift to Linux, but
Windows 10 forced it on me sooner than I expected.

And I would not want Inkscape to be thought of as an "app".  What I see as
Windows' new apps, is cheap software with limited capabilities.  Perhaps
suitable for "the masses" (emphasis on "perhaps").  But anyone who values
individuality, and thinking and making decisions for oneself, as opposed to
being mindless sheep, following the flock to wherever they may go, can
immediately see what is missing.

To repeat myself, I would not want Inkscape to be associated with Windows'
"apps".

All my opinion  :-)

All best,
brynn

-----Original Message-----
From: Eduard Braun
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2017 5:53 AM
To: Marc Jeanmougin ; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

The way I see it, we should basically answer ourselves one question: Do we gain
anything from offering Inkscape in the Windows store that would make it worth
our while?


Personally I dislike everything App-related and although I use Windows 10 I've
removed all apps and never use Windows store. From my point of view "apps" (and
especially app stores) are one of the most stupid inventions of the 21st
century, developed by people under the pretense of improved security and ease of
use, but in the end mostly being a way to create a unified route for
monetization where Microsoft/Google/whoever can get a piece of the cake
on-the-fly while controlling which apps are made available in the first place,
so I'd boycott it unless it would cause the project serious disadvantages (and I
doubt it very much that this would be the case). But that's only my opinion...

>From the Inkscape project's point of view I believe visibility is one of the
biggest potential gains:
People who otherwise might not stumble over Inkscape might do so if it was
available on the Windows store.
My question here would be: Does anybody believe this would be a considerable
amount of users? As I said before I don't use the Windows store and I also don't
know any people who do. As a result I actually doubt there would be a reasonable
gain involved... But I might be wrong: Do others have a different impression? Is
there any indication that whatever Microsoft has planned might change the
situation in the near future? From the outreach it seems at least as if they
were (desperately?) trying to make the Windows store more popular.

Apart from that I don't see many advantages (quite the opposite):

It would be yet another package that has to be maintained.
As far as I can see It would create installations incompatible to standalone
installations as Windows apps seem to be designed as being self-contained
without direct access to the file system.
The whole Windows Desktop Bridge adds yet another emulation layer, which
obviously might influence performance  but more importantly could cause new bugs
that would need a lot of effort to debug and we're already behind on Windows
specific bugs as it is.




As Mc I'm strongly opposed to putting any price tag on Inkscape. Doing so would
be the right approach if we wanted to handicap/penalize the Windows store on
purpose (I know this from a few open source applications available from Google
store for a fee while they're for free otherwise), but in that case I wouldn't
bother putting Inkscape into the Windows store to start with.
Donations are obviously fine, but I don't think that such a discussion would be
specific to the Windows store.

Regards,
Eduard


P.S. (Off topic but I have to mention it - maybe worth a second thread, though):
To all of you who seem to have dollars in your eyes: Does anybody of you have
the impression that the speed of Inkscape's development is currently limited by
money? Is any of the active developers paid? Would any of the active developers
would want to be paid in order to invest more (spare) time into Inkscape? Where
should this time come from? I honestly don't have the impression we have a
reasonable idea on how to invest any potential money/donations that would be
earned/raised in order to actually benefit feature development. (The one thing I
see where money really is advantageous are hackfests. But then again one was
just canceled because of lack of interest/time and I doubt money would have
change much about that...)






------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot





_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Brynn
In reply to this post by Martin Owens-2
> If we are to be used, let us at least ask for some small token in
exchange.

Wait.  Are you suggesting the $10 fee or suggested donation from users?  Or are
you suggesting MS pay us a fee?  Haha!

In jest.

But really,

"If we are to be used, let us at least ask for some small token in exchange."

From that point of view, exactly who benefits from having Inkscape in the
Windows store?

MS, Inkscape, Inkscape users?

Maybe considering who benefits more from having Inkscape in the store, should be
considered?

Last thought.
From my primary role in the community, which is answering user questions in
forums (and now and then in the mailing list) having Inkscape in the Windows
store will mean more *super newbies* asking questions.

Right now, people seek out Inkscape because they need vector graphics for their
specific project.  Putting Inkscape in the store will mean more casual, or
simply curious users.

If the project is seriously considering this, in my humble opinion, the project
needs to consider making itself easier for this kind of user to learn.  Of
course there are many ways that could be done (including the proposed new
user-focussed manual).  But right now, in my experience, the group who I think
of as "super newbies" typically seem to find Inkscape is hard to learn.

So I wouldn't want Inkscape to gain such reputation, just because a lot of
casual users haven't spent as much time as is needed to learn how to use it.  I
assume the Windows store has some easy buttons to rate the software?

All my opinion  :-)

All best,
brynn


-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Owens
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2017 8:41 PM
To: Victor Westmann ; C R
Cc: [hidden email] ; inkscape-devel
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

We're never going to have the organisational soul sucking power needed
to run a kickstarter. They're really hard projects to run and require a
certain type of person to be able to sit there begging. Plus it's not
systematic, so you'd have to run it over and over.

I brought up money because it's something that we could find use for. I
see once against in this conversation we've brought out the old
chestnuts that Free Software should always be free beer.

I sigh greatly. I see Free Software shooting itself in the foot as it
aspires to no great change in it's economic reality. While people need
food and shelter, code needs money to be made. And while we must stay
on this road of demanding users be a grateful charity, we will not be
inspired to listen to user's wants.

Which is bad.

These apps stores need our content and they seek to control their
user's habitual access to software. We'd give it freely and retain no
value to maintain or improve our project, while they that call
themselves Microsoft, Apple and Debian get to control everything about
our project's appearance, cost and communication.

We've always been able to stomach the deal we get from Debian and
Fedora because their motives are pure while they do some harm to our
project's community by splitting us from our users, their user land is
a bright city of developers who theoretically can reach out beyond the
great package divide and clone our repository in reproprosity.

Now Microsoft wan't to take advantage and offers nothing but fame and
glory? We have Millions of users already, Inkscape already has a
terrible exchange rate from user to donation or developer. I was at
LibrePlanet 2017 just this week and collected bags of gratitude from
everyone I met that Inkscape was an amazing thing. Our brand is good
and we should ask for more resources from our users to maintain this
project to a high standard.

If we are to be used, let us at least ask for some small token in
exchange.

Best Regards, Martin Owens


On Tue, 2017-03-28 at 23:31 -0700, Victor Westmann wrote:

> +1 for kickstarter with a clear roadmap with new features (or bug
> fixing for greater stability and speed).
>
>
>
> --Victor Westmann
>
> 2017-03-28 23:22 GMT-07:00 C R <[hidden email]>:
> > My thought is we should do it for free for two reasons:
> >
> > 1. Exposure
> > 2. So MS doesn't feel they can take a cut.
> >
> > My 2p.
> > Also we should probably get Inkscape out of beta (1.0) then do a
> > full blown kickstater if we want to make money for the project.
> >
> > My 2p
> >
> > On 29 Mar 2017 6:32 a.m., "Olof Bjarnason" <[hidden email]
> > m> wrote:
> > > Is it possible to do a suggested donation via the store
> > > instead...? That defaults to $10? This would be similar to the
> > > open source launcher for Windows, Launchy.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 29 Mar 2017 07:25, "Miguel Lopez" <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Hi David Washington,
> > > > Since Inkscape is already marketed as a free software, putting
> > > > this out there with a price just might give Inkscape the
> > > > impression that it may no longer be free, and that is a issue
> > > > for the reputation of Inkscape for many people, but however
> > > > that concern can be minimized. To begin with, one has to find a
> > > > way to minimize that problem. To start with a suggestion, let's
> > > > start with a hypothetical. If one were to put a price on the
> > > > software and put it on a store, then Inkscape should have some
> > > > sort of additional features that one must pay to have with
> > > > assurance that the money being paid for additional features is
> > > > a donation to support Inkscape development, but Inkscape should
> > > > remain free to download via Windows Store. Some additional
> > > > features can be cloud saving, and exporting to Microsoft Office
> > > > programs. Microsoft Office programs don't really do well
> > > > rendering Inkscape SVG, but I'm sure this can be considered
> > > > later on if Microsoft wants to put this program on the store.
> > > > I'm sure a lot of people would pay to have better SVG rendering
> > > > support for Microsoft Office, and this might be the first step
> > > > for that, and this also might encourage open-source office
> > > > programs to render Inkscape SVG better (That is if they even
> > > > bother with that at all).
> > > > This can indeed be a start for better SVG support for Office
> > > > programs, and cloud saving in Inkscape with Microsoft server,
> > > > better program integration support, even better SVG rendering
> > > > on the web, and of course, more awareness of Inkscape. There
> > > > also might be more incentive for Inkscape to have better mobile
> > > > support as a result of this. Essentially, development of
> > > > Inkscape can go forward at a faster rate. Come to think of it,
> > > > I think I support the idea of a price provided the price is
> > > > only for additional features. I hope to see improvement on SVG
> > > > support everywhere as a result of this were if this were to go
> > > > forward, and as well as improvements on Inkscape considering
> > > > that Inkscape development is very slow.
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Miguel Lopez
> > > > On 3/28/2017 9:24 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
> > > > > Thanks Mc,
> > > > >
> > > > > This is very interesting.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd actually be interested in asking for a price per install.
> > > > > Everyone
> > > > > thinks that Inkscape is 'for free', but actually it's more
> > > > > important
> > > > > that's it's Free Software.
> > > > >
> > > > > Say if the price for inkscape is $10 on the windows store.
> > > > > Windows is
> > > > > our biggest market, there's an opportunity there even if most
> > > > > people
> > > > > forgo the store and download from us directly.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thoughts?
> > > > >
> > > > > Best Regards, Martin Owens
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, 2017-03-29 at 00:30 +0200, Marc Jeanmougin wrote:
> > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I recently discussed on IRC with dwcares from Miscrosoft
> > > > > > who wants to
> > > > > > help us simplify precesses on windows.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Here is his email:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ===
> > > > > > David Washington from Microsoft here. Earlier this
> > > > > > afternoon I had
> > > > > > conversation with Marc about potentially publishing  the
> > > > > > Inkscape app
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > the Windows Store, the app store for Windows 10 PCs.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Windows Store now supports publishing Win32 Desktop
> > > > > > apps with
> > > > > > little
> > > > > > or no code change using the Windows Desktop Bridge. Taking
> > > > > > advantage
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > the Windows Desktop Bridge and Distributing through the
> > > > > > Windows Store
> > > > > > also  provides simplified options for  automated updates,
> > > > > > easy
> > > > > > install
> > > > > > and uninstall, and provides a new distribution path for
> > > > > > folks who may
> > > > > > have not found Inkscape before.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Our team has identified Inkscape as a top desktop app that
> > > > > > we’d love
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > see in the Windows Store. Given this we have some resources
> > > > > > to help
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > the process of getting this ported using the Windows
> > > > > > Desktop Bridge
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > published to the Windows Store. The process itself is
> > > > > > lightweight,
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > our team is equipped help walk you through getting it
> > > > > > ported and
> > > > > > published. We’ve done some early investigation on the
> > > > > > Inkscape
> > > > > > binaries
> > > > > > and we haven’t identified any issues getting it published.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If this is something that seems interesting to you, we can
> > > > > > get
> > > > > > together
> > > > > > on the phone and talk through the details for the next
> > > > > > steps of
> > > > > > getting
> > > > > > this published. If you’d rather make progress in email/IRC,
> > > > > > we’re
> > > > > > happy
> > > > > > to  accommodate what works for your team. We’re prepared to
> > > > > > work with
> > > > > > you on getting this published as early as next week.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I look forward to working together. I’ve included some
> > > > > > folks from my
> > > > > > team who will be helping you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks much,
> > > > > > David Washington
> > > > > > Microsoft | Developer Experience | 206-605-2062
> > > > > > ===
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Eduard, Nicolas or Partha, iirc you're the ones doing stuff
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > windows,
> > > > > > could you take it from here if it seems interesting ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > -----------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > -------------------
> > > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> > > > > most
> > > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Inkscape-devel mailing list
> > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
> > > >
> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > -----------------
> > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Inkscape-devel mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
> > > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ---------------
> > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Inkscape-devel mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
> > >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------------
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > _______________________________________________
> > Inkscape-devel mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Tim Sheridan
In reply to this post by Martin Owens-2
> If we are to be used, let us at least ask for some small token in
> exchange.

I'm not sure of Microsoft's Windows Store policies on this, but it might be possible to have Inkscape added to the store with two listings for the same binary: a regular free listing, and one priced at a recommended donation amount ($5, $10 or whatever).

Even with Microsoft's 30% cut, having a lower friction way that users can donate might bring in money that wouldn't otherwise get donated by users if they had to go through the website to find the donate page and think up an amount to donate.

Cheers,
Tim

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Martin Owens-2
On Thu, 2017-03-30 at 12:25 +0100, Tim Sheridan wrote:
> I'm not sure of Microsoft's Windows Store policies on this, but it
> might be possible to have Inkscape added to the store with two
> listings for the same binary: a regular free listing, and one priced
> at a recommended donation amount ($5, $10 or whatever).

That's an idea worth thinking about. It's been done in other places.

> Even with Microsoft's 30% cut, having a lower friction way that users
> can donate might bring in money that wouldn't otherwise get donated
> by users if they had to go through the website to find the donate
> page and think up an amount to donate.

The only other place, would be inside the app itself. Which is fine,
but we'd have to develop a few of those UI pieces to integrate the
community better. Donations, forums, alerts about new versions etc.

Martin,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Miguel Lopez
In reply to this post by Brynn
"From that point of view, exactly who benefits from having Inkscape in
the Windows store?"

If Inkscape can be ported into tightly locked down varient of Windows,
then I'd imagine they'd be able to install Inkscape through the Store
since desktop programs are not normally able to be installed there.
People who wants a vector program through Surface RT, for example may
have a use of this program. You might say that this applies to very few
people, and I would agree with that, but that's still a small amount of
people with no access to Inkscape as it is to be able to access Inkscape.

On 3/30/2017 5:57 AM, brynn wrote:

>> If we are to be used, let us at least ask for some small token in
> exchange.
>
> Wait.  Are you suggesting the $10 fee or suggested donation from users?  Or are
> you suggesting MS pay us a fee?  Haha!
>
> In jest.
>
> But really,
>
> "If we are to be used, let us at least ask for some small token in exchange."
>
>  From that point of view, exactly who benefits from having Inkscape in the
> Windows store?
>
> MS, Inkscape, Inkscape users?
>
> Maybe considering who benefits more from having Inkscape in the store, should be
> considered?
>
> Last thought.
>  From my primary role in the community, which is answering user questionsin
> forums (and now and then in the mailing list) having Inkscape in the Windows
> store will mean more *super newbies* asking questions.
>
> Right now, people seek out Inkscape because they need vector graphics fortheir
> specific project.  Putting Inkscape in the store will mean more casual, or
> simply curious users.
>
> If the project is seriously considering this, in my humble opinion, the project
> needs to consider making itself easier for this kind of user to learn.  Of
> course there are many ways that could be done (including the proposed new
> user-focussed manual).  But right now, in my experience, the group who I think
> of as "super newbies" typically seem to find Inkscape is hard to learn.
>
> So I wouldn't want Inkscape to gain such reputation, just because a lot of
> casual users haven't spent as much time as is needed to learn how to use it.  I
> assume the Windows store has some easy buttons to rate the software?
>
> All my opinion  :-)
>
> All best,
> brynn
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Owens
> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2017 8:41 PM
> To: Victor Westmann ; C R
> Cc: [hidden email] ; inkscape-devel
> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Offer to help put inkscape on windows store
>
> We're never going to have the organisational soul sucking power needed
> to run a kickstarter. They're really hard projects to run and require a
> certain type of person to be able to sit there begging. Plus it's not
> systematic, so you'd have to run it over and over.
>
> I brought up money because it's something that we could find use for. I
> see once against in this conversation we've brought out the old
> chestnuts that Free Software should always be free beer.
>
> I sigh greatly. I see Free Software shooting itself in the foot as it
> aspires to no great change in it's economic reality. While people need
> food and shelter, code needs money to be made. And while we must stay
> on this road of demanding users be a grateful charity, we will not be
> inspired to listen to user's wants.
>
> Which is bad.
>
> These apps stores need our content and they seek to control their
> user's habitual access to software. We'd give it freely and retain no
> value to maintain or improve our project, while they that call
> themselves Microsoft, Apple and Debian get to control everything about
> our project's appearance, cost and communication.
>
> We've always been able to stomach the deal we get from Debian and
> Fedora because their motives are pure while they do some harm to our
> project's community by splitting us from our users, their user land is
> a bright city of developers who theoretically can reach out beyond the
> great package divide and clone our repository in reproprosity.
>
> Now Microsoft wan't to take advantage and offers nothing but fame and
> glory? We have Millions of users already, Inkscape already has a
> terrible exchange rate from user to donation or developer. I was at
> LibrePlanet 2017 just this week and collected bags of gratitude from
> everyone I met that Inkscape was an amazing thing. Our brand is good
> and we should ask for more resources from our users to maintain this
> project to a high standard.
>
> If we are to be used, let us at least ask for some small token in
> exchange.
>
> Best Regards, Martin Owens
>
>
> On Tue, 2017-03-28 at 23:31 -0700, Victor Westmann wrote:
>> +1 for kickstarter with a clear roadmap with new features (or bug
>> fixing for greater stability and speed).
>>
>>
>>
>> --Victor Westmann
>>
>> 2017-03-28 23:22 GMT-07:00 C R <[hidden email]>:
>>> My thought is we should do it for free for two reasons:
>>>
>>> 1. Exposure
>>> 2. So MS doesn't feel they can take a cut.
>>>
>>> My 2p.
>>> Also we should probably get Inkscape out of beta (1.0) then do a
>>> full blown kickstater if we want to make money for the project.
>>>
>>> My 2p
>>>
>>> On 29 Mar 2017 6:32 a.m., "Olof Bjarnason" <[hidden email]
>>> m> wrote:
>>>> Is it possible to do a suggested donation via the store
>>>> instead...? That defaults to $10? This would be similar to the
>>>> open source launcher for Windows, Launchy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 29 Mar 2017 07:25, "Miguel Lopez" <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hi David Washington,
>>>>> Since Inkscape is already marketed as a free software, putting
>>>>> this out there with a price just might give Inkscape the
>>>>> impression that it may no longer be free, and that is a issue
>>>>> for the reputation of Inkscape for many people, but however
>>>>> that concern can be minimized. To begin with, one has to find a
>>>>> way to minimize that problem. To start with a suggestion, let's
>>>>> start with a hypothetical. If one were to put a price on the
>>>>> software and put it on a store, then Inkscape should have some
>>>>> sort of additional features that one must pay to have with
>>>>> assurance that the money being paid for additional features is
>>>>> a donation to support Inkscape development, but Inkscape should
>>>>> remain free to download via Windows Store. Some additional
>>>>> features can be cloud saving, and exporting to Microsoft Office
>>>>> programs. Microsoft Office programs don't really do well
>>>>> rendering Inkscape SVG, but I'm sure this can be considered
>>>>> later on if Microsoft wants to put this program on the store.
>>>>> I'm sure a lot of people would pay to have better SVG rendering
>>>>> support for Microsoft Office, and this might be the first step
>>>>> for that, and this also might encourage open-source office
>>>>> programs to render Inkscape SVG better (That is if they even
>>>>> bother with that at all).
>>>>> This can indeed be a start for better SVG support for Office
>>>>> programs, and cloud saving in Inkscape with Microsoft server,
>>>>> better program integration support, even better SVG rendering
>>>>> on the web, and of course, more awareness of Inkscape. There
>>>>> also might be more incentive for Inkscape to have better mobile
>>>>> support as a result of this. Essentially, development of
>>>>> Inkscape can go forward at a faster rate. Come to think of it,
>>>>> I think I support the idea of a price provided the price is
>>>>> only for additional features. I hope to see improvement on SVG
>>>>> support everywhere as a result of this were if this were to go
>>>>> forward, and as well as improvements on Inkscape considering
>>>>> that Inkscape development is very slow.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Miguel Lopez
>>>>> On 3/28/2017 9:24 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
>>>>>> Thanks Mc,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is very interesting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd actually be interested in asking for a price per install.
>>>>>> Everyone
>>>>>> thinks that Inkscape is 'for free', but actually it's more
>>>>>> important
>>>>>> that's it's Free Software.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Say if the price for inkscape is $10 on the windows store.
>>>>>> Windows is
>>>>>> our biggest market, there's an opportunity there even if most
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> forgo the store and download from us directly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best Regards, Martin Owens
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 2017-03-29 at 00:30 +0200, Marc Jeanmougin wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I recently discussed on IRC with dwcares from Miscrosoft
>>>>>>> who wants to
>>>>>>> help us simplify precesses on windows.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here is his email:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>> David Washington from Microsoft here. Earlier this
>>>>>>> afternoon I had
>>>>>>> conversation with Marc about potentially publishing  the
>>>>>>> Inkscape app
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> the Windows Store, the app store for Windows 10 PCs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Windows Store now supports publishing Win32 Desktop
>>>>>>> apps with
>>>>>>> little
>>>>>>> or no code change using the Windows Desktop Bridge. Taking
>>>>>>> advantage
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the Windows Desktop Bridge and Distributing through the
>>>>>>> Windows Store
>>>>>>> also  provides simplified options for  automated updates,
>>>>>>> easy
>>>>>>> install
>>>>>>> and uninstall, and provides a new distribution path for
>>>>>>> folks who may
>>>>>>> have not found Inkscape before.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Our team has identified Inkscape as a top desktop app that
>>>>>>> we’d love
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> see in the Windows Store. Given this we have some resources
>>>>>>> to help
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> the process of getting this ported using the Windows
>>>>>>> Desktop Bridge
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> published to the Windows Store. The process itself is
>>>>>>> lightweight,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> our team is equipped help walk you through getting it
>>>>>>> ported and
>>>>>>> published. We’ve done some early investigation on the
>>>>>>> Inkscape
>>>>>>> binaries
>>>>>>> and we haven’t identified any issues getting it published.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If this is something that seems interesting to you, we can
>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>> together
>>>>>>> on the phone and talk through the details for the next
>>>>>>> steps of
>>>>>>> getting
>>>>>>> this published. If you’d rather make progress in email/IRC,
>>>>>>> we’re
>>>>>>> happy
>>>>>>> to  accommodate what works for your team. We’re prepared to
>>>>>>> work with
>>>>>>> you on getting this published as early as next week.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I look forward to working together. I’ve included some
>>>>>>> folks from my
>>>>>>> team who will be helping you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks much,
>>>>>>> David Washington
>>>>>>> Microsoft | Developer Experience | 206-605-2062
>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eduard, Nicolas or Partha, iirc you're the ones doing stuff
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> windows,
>>>>>>> could you take it from here if it seems interesting ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> -------------------
>>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
>>>>>> most
>>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Inkscape-devel mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> -----------------
>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Inkscape-devel mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ---------------
>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Inkscape-devel mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>>>>
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Inkscape-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -----------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Inkscape-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Amelia Bellamy-Royds
In reply to this post by Marc Jeanmougin
It seems to me there are two benefits of the Windows Store:

- Discoverability.  You may not know a lot of people who use the app store, but you're probably coming from a biased perspective of an experienced computer developer. For less tech-savvy users, this is one way they discover new programs.

- Trust. Many users have rightly been warned against downloading and running arbitrary executables from the Internet. I think the Trust factor of Inkscape's official download pages is pretty good (certainly a step up from SourceForge with all its pop-up ads), but again: for new computer users, the Windows store is a strong marker that this is a real, safe program.  (Which Microsoft enforces with signing requirements and sandboxing limitations.)

I would urge everyone not to get overly caught up in the "app" terminology.  An app is just an application, a program, some software, renamed thanks to Apple's massive advertising campaign of the last decade.  Yes, many modern apps also share other features (like relying on internet services), or a certain mobile-focused look & feel, but that isn't essential, and isn't what is being proposed here.  

One way to think of the Windows Desktop Bridge seems to simply be a new installer package, one that plays well with the Windows store and modern notifications and update methods on Windows.  Functionally, the main change is that the software is sandboxed when running, so that all file system access goes through the app wrapper.


My remaining questions would be:

- In addition to the development time required to initially set up the Windows Desktop Bridge (Which David at Microsoft has offered to help with), how much additional maintenance work will be created by having a second Windows installer package?  How much administrative complexity will be created by working with the Windows store?

- Will Inkscape scripts & extensions still work with a sandboxed application?  What about command line features?  If some features won't be available, how will this be communicated to users? Could there be some way to let someone upgrade to "developer mode"?

- Does the Windows store provide an environment for successfully communicating the key features of the project, linking to additional resources, and requesting donations?  Alternatively, as Martin suggested, could some of this information be more effectively integrated into the app itself (such as a splash screen on load)?

(I agree with Marc that putting an obligatory price on app store downloads would effectively be penalizing new or less-savvy users.  If it is possible to add an optional donation to the download page, that would be great, but it shouldn't be free if downloaded from one site and paid from another.)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Loading...