Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

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Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Martin Owens-2
On Wed, 2017-05-10 at 21:44 -0700, Windell H. Oskay wrote:
> Thus, the "who benefits" question now prompts a new one: Do we as a
> community wish to (eventually) include Windows 10 S amongst the list
> of operating systems that are officially supported by Inkscape?

If you think about the word "support" it sounds awfully like there's a
bunch of resource behind said endorsement to help people and ensure
quality.

We try our best of course, but this loose confederation of people
doesn't have anything but good will to support any operating system. So
in terms of a commercial product, we support no system. (I just want to
make this part clear)

If someone created a version of Inkscape for the Atari, I'd probably
put it up on the website. Given some basic checking that it was a real
thing. It wouldn't be top billing or anything, but that'd be the kind
of "support" we'd offer.

And this is an os store, we don't need to host anything.

Without a relationship between Microsoft and the Conservancy and some
sort of board vote for accepting money from the store. There's just no
business relationship there, so anyone could support the Inkscape build
into the Microsoft store, even Microsoft themselves could. We could
hold the keys in some special place, or have a repository of build
scripts which placate the store's installer, but that's about as much
"support" as we'd be capable of offering.

So. If you want Windows store support for Inkscape. Please, please, go
right ahead and start building that. I'll try and help with what raw
support we can offer, but it's something that needs the meat of time
from a dedicated person (or people).

Best Regards, Martin Owens

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Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Miguel Lopez
In that case, either Windell H. Oskay, and/or Microsoft can put Inkscape
into the store, and especially if Windows 10S proves to be something
that's not like the original Windows 10. Also, Windows 10S seem to be
very much like the locked down version made for educational systems,
parents who don't know much about computers (I wish my parents knew what
linux is and cared for it since they don't know security which is what
Windows 10 users top priority should be), and businesses. It'll be a
Windows OS that patches so many holes that things like Comodo Internet
Security, Avira, and so on aren't needed. I'm for it for W10S users to
gain access to Inkscape.


On 5/11/2017 1:06 PM, Martin Owens wrote:

> On Wed, 2017-05-10 at 21:44 -0700, Windell H. Oskay wrote:
>> Thus, the "who benefits" question now prompts a new one: Do we as a
>> community wish to (eventually) include Windows 10 S amongst the list
>> of operating systems that are officially supported by Inkscape?
> If you think about the word "support" it sounds awfully like there's a
> bunch of resource behind said endorsement to help people and ensure
> quality.
>
> We try our best of course, but this loose confederation of people
> doesn't have anything but good will to support any operating system. So
> in terms of a commercial product, we support no system. (I just want to
> make this part clear)
>
> If someone created a version of Inkscape for the Atari, I'd probably
> put it up on the website. Given some basic checking that it was a real
> thing. It wouldn't be top billing or anything, but that'd be the kind
> of "support" we'd offer.
>
> And this is an os store, we don't need to host anything.
>
> Without a relationship between Microsoft and the Conservancy and some
> sort of board vote for accepting money from the store. There's just no
> business relationship there, so anyone could support the Inkscape build
> into the Microsoft store, even Microsoft themselves could. We could
> hold the keys in some special place, or have a repository of build
> scripts which placate the store's installer, but that's about as much
> "support" as we'd be capable of offering.
>
> So. If you want Windows store support for Inkscape. Please, please, go
> right ahead and start building that. I'll try and help with what raw
> support we can offer, but it's something that needs the meat of time
> from a dedicated person (or people).
>
> Best Regards, Martin Owens
>
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel


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Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Marc Jeanmougin
JFYI, Inkscape is on the win10 store and has been there for ~ a week
with ~1k installs[1]. I did not make any publicity to see if there were
reviews about problems. So far, it appears to work; just the people with
a hidpi screen complain because everything is too small (already known
problem with gtk2)

The creation of the appx is pretty straightforward, with just a tool to
run in a single windows command in console on the installer, so it's
manageable to maintain.

--
Mc
[1] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/inkscape/9pd9bhglfc7h

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Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Maren Hachmann
Mc, because Eduard uploaded a screenshot to the website, I had a chance
to see what it looks like - may I ask you where the 'support' link goes?

Also, I'd like to know if it would be okay to add a note to the Windows
download page - just to have an indication on the website that that
download is legit, too.

Maren

Am 11.05.2017 um 21:55 schrieb Marc Jeanmougin:

> JFYI, Inkscape is on the win10 store and has been there for ~ a week
> with ~1k installs[1]. I did not make any publicity to see if there were
> reviews about problems. So far, it appears to work; just the people with
> a hidpi screen complain because everything is too small (already known
> problem with gtk2)
>
> The creation of the appx is pretty straightforward, with just a tool to
> run in a single windows command in console on the installer, so it's
> manageable to maintain.
>


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Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Marc Jeanmougin
It goes to https://inkscape.org/en/learn/ which looked the most logical
way to direct people asking for general inkscape support (you can test
it on https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/inkscape/9pd9bhglfc7h btw)


The "generic" image for windows store dl is
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/53fce470e4b0374adfdd30bc/t/54764a68e4b007bde3f71aa6/1417038441072/badge-windows-store.png

and the url it should go to can be either the store webpage, or better
"ms-windows-store://pdp/?productid=9pd9bhglfc7h" which should open with
the store application on windows

--
Mc


On 05/11/2017 10:34 PM, Maren Hachmann wrote:

> Mc, because Eduard uploaded a screenshot to the website, I had a chance
> to see what it looks like - may I ask you where the 'support' link goes?
>
> Also, I'd like to know if it would be okay to add a note to the Windows
> download page - just to have an indication on the website that that
> download is legit, too.
>
> Maren
>
> Am 11.05.2017 um 21:55 schrieb Marc Jeanmougin:
>> JFYI, Inkscape is on the win10 store and has been there for ~ a week
>> with ~1k installs[1]. I did not make any publicity to see if there were
>> reviews about problems. So far, it appears to work; just the people with
>> a hidpi screen complain because everything is too small (already known
>> problem with gtk2)
>>
>> The creation of the appx is pretty straightforward, with just a tool to
>> run in a single windows command in console on the installer, so it's
>> manageable to maintain.
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>

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Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

maren
Am 11.05.2017 um 22:59 schrieb Marc Jeanmougin:
> It goes to https://inkscape.org/en/learn/ which looked the most logical
> way to direct people asking for general inkscape support (you can test
> it on https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/inkscape/9pd9bhglfc7h btw)

Thanks, yes, I agree, that's a very good choice :) If you remove the
/en/, it will redirect to a page in the user's language, if available.
Btw. what happened to the Inkscape logo there? It looks a bit strange
with that huge dark rim.

(LOL, the shop tells me that 'This app does not work on your device.' If
only they knew...)

> The "generic" image for windows store dl is
> https://static1.squarespace.com/static/53fce470e4b0374adfdd30bc/t/54764a68e4b007bde3f71aa6/1417038441072/badge-windows-store.png
>
> and the url it should go to can be either the store webpage, or better
> "ms-windows-store://pdp/?productid=9pd9bhglfc7h" which should open with
> the store application on windows
>
As there have been some reservations mentioned before:

Does anyone object to adding that image (smaller!) with a link somewhere
to the bottom of the Windows download page?

Maren


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Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Marc Jeanmougin
I don't think there is much I can do about it, it's likely the icon
pulled from the package, but probably transformed with a very poor
transparency support (converted at some point to a 1-bit alpha channel,
I guess), so the filter in the inkscape icon looks ugly.

I'm CCing David, maybe they can fix it on their side :p

--
Mc

On 05/11/2017 11:22 PM, maren wrote:

> Am 11.05.2017 um 22:59 schrieb Marc Jeanmougin:
>> It goes to https://inkscape.org/en/learn/ which looked the most logical
>> way to direct people asking for general inkscape support (you can test
>> it on https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/inkscape/9pd9bhglfc7h btw)
>
> Thanks, yes, I agree, that's a very good choice :) If you remove the
> /en/, it will redirect to a page in the user's language, if available.
> Btw. what happened to the Inkscape logo there? It looks a bit strange
> with that huge dark rim.
>
> (LOL, the shop tells me that 'This app does not work on your device.' If
> only they knew...)
>
>> The "generic" image for windows store dl is
>> https://static1.squarespace.com/static/53fce470e4b0374adfdd30bc/t/54764a68e4b007bde3f71aa6/1417038441072/badge-windows-store.png
>>
>> and the url it should go to can be either the store webpage, or better
>> "ms-windows-store://pdp/?productid=9pd9bhglfc7h" which should open with
>> the store application on windows
>>
> As there have been some reservations mentioned before:
>
> Does anyone object to adding that image (smaller!) with a link somewhere
> to the bottom of the Windows download page?
>
> Maren
>
>
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>

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User Involvement (again) Was: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Windell H. Oskay
In reply to this post by Miguel Lopez
Let me recap part of this discussion:

1. Someone from Microsoft (not me) offered to help get Inkscape on the Windows store.

2. There was an ensuing discussion on this mailing list about that topic.

3. I contributed a data point to this discussion, noting that a new OS version requiring apps to use the Windows store was released last week.

4. Amongst the responses to this were some including that classic FOSS sentiment, "if you want it, go build it yourself." (Which, as Coding horror notes, sometimes means "F**k you.")


Now, Inkscape on the Windows store has never been a goal of mine.* I'm glad that it's there now, but it doesn't particularly affect _me_ one way or the other. This was not a feature request; I was merely trying to contribute a useful data point to a discussion underway.


However, I am disappointed in _us_ as a community, for responding this way to a discussion.

We've had discussions on this list in the past about ways to be considerate and welcoming, rather than just responding to feature requests with things like "patches welcome" -- and this wasn't even a feature request. It doesn't bother me (much) personally to have someone suggest that I go code something-- sometimes I do! -- but it does bother me (a lot) if our community thinks that this is an appropriate response.

Please, let us all collectively try to be more considerate and welcoming to others interested in improving Inkscape.

-Windell

(* Just saw the message from Marc Jeanmougin -- Looks like the question in the original discussion is moot, since Inkscape is already on the Windows store. Thank you for your work on this, Marc.)


> On May 11, 2017, at 10:06 AM, Martin Owens <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> So. If you want Windows store support for Inkscape. Please, please, go
> right ahead and start building that.


> On May 11, 2017, at 11:48 AM, Miguel Lopez <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> In that case, either Windell H. Oskay, and/or Microsoft can put Inkscape
> into the store, [...]



Windell H. Oskay, Ph.D.
Co-Founder and Chief Scientist
Evil Mad Scientist Laboratories
175 San Lazaro Ave, STE 150
Sunnyvale CA 94086
http://www.evilmadscientist.com/


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Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Eduard Braun
In reply to this post by maren
Am 11.05.2017 um 23:22 schrieb maren:
> As there have been some reservations mentioned before:
>
> Does anyone object to adding that image (smaller!) with a link somewhere
> to the bottom of the Windows download page?

Well, I still have my reservations, but I don't want to impose my
principles on the project and as Mc put in the work to create the
package I wont make a stand against it. ;-)

That being said, the reasons for using the Store version and the
implications of it should be made clear, e.g. something along the lines of:
"Are you using a platform that requires you to install software from
Windows Store (e.g. Windows 10 S) or do you prefer to install the store
version for some other reason? [Download it here]"
"Please note that this version is not compatible with regular
installations (your settings will be lost). Functionality might be
limited and we can only offer reduced support."

Regards,
Eduard

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Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Martin Owens-2
In reply to this post by Marc Jeanmougin
This is great Marc,

As Maren said, we can decide how best to put it on the website for
people who want to confirm it's the real deal.

Did you use a shared key or are you willing to hold onto that for now?

Best Regards, Martin Owens

On Thu, 2017-05-11 at 21:55 +0200, Marc Jeanmougin wrote:

> JFYI, Inkscape is on the win10 store and has been there for ~ a week
> with ~1k installs[1]. I did not make any publicity to see if there
> were
> reviews about problems. So far, it appears to work; just the people
> with
> a hidpi screen complain because everything is too small (already
> known
> problem with gtk2)
>
> The creation of the appx is pretty straightforward, with just a tool
> to
> run in a single windows command in console on the installer, so it's
> manageable to maintain.

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Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Marc Jeanmougin
I just pushed the windows store credentials to the credentials repo

On 05/12/2017 02:44 AM, Martin Owens wrote:

> This is great Marc,
>
> As Maren said, we can decide how best to put it on the website for
> people who want to confirm it's the real deal.
>
> Did you use a shared key or are you willing to hold onto that for now?
>
> Best Regards, Martin Owens
>
> On Thu, 2017-05-11 at 21:55 +0200, Marc Jeanmougin wrote:
>> JFYI, Inkscape is on the win10 store and has been there for ~ a week
>> with ~1k installs[1]. I did not make any publicity to see if there
>> were
>> reviews about problems. So far, it appears to work; just the people
>> with
>> a hidpi screen complain because everything is too small (already
>> known
>> problem with gtk2)
>>
>> The creation of the appx is pretty straightforward, with just a tool
>> to
>> run in a single windows command in console on the installer, so it's
>> manageable to maintain.

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Re: Offer to help put inkscape on windows store

Maren Hachmann
In reply to this post by Eduard Braun
Thank you, Eduard and Marc!
I've added it to the website with Eduard's note:
https://inkscape.org/en/download/windows/

Kind Regards,
 Maren


Am 12.05.2017 um 00:10 schrieb Eduard Braun:

> Am 11.05.2017 um 23:22 schrieb maren:
>> As there have been some reservations mentioned before:
>>
>> Does anyone object to adding that image (smaller!) with a link somewhere
>> to the bottom of the Windows download page?
>
> Well, I still have my reservations, but I don't want to impose my
> principles on the project and as Mc put in the work to create the
> package I wont make a stand against it. ;-)
>
> That being said, the reasons for using the Store version and the
> implications of it should be made clear, e.g. something along the lines of:
> "Are you using a platform that requires you to install software from
> Windows Store (e.g. Windows 10 S) or do you prefer to install the store
> version for some other reason? [Download it here]"
> "Please note that this version is not compatible with regular
> installations (your settings will be lost). Functionality might be
> limited and we can only offer reduced support."
>
> Regards,
> Eduard
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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