Re: [Inkscape-user] Yesterday was SMIL and today is Mesh Gradients

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Re: [Inkscape-user] Yesterday was SMIL and today is Mesh Gradients

Tavmjong Bah
On Thu, 2018-07-12 at 21:05 -0700, Victor Westmann wrote:
Hi fellow inkscapers,

I was amazed to read that inkscape already has Mesh Gradients (since version 0.92) just like Adobe Illustrator. Illustrator got this exact same feature in the version 8 (released in 1998). 20 years ago.

But it seems that Mesh Gradients will be removed from the SVG 2.0 specification. My question is WHY?

Nobody else has implemented the SVG version of mesh gradients. Adobe is interested but won't proceed until at least one browser has implemented it. Firefox was interested a few years ago. These things often depend on who is working on SVG at the moment.

To remain in the final publication, there must be at least two independent implementations... with one being in a browser. The pragmatic solution to getting SVG 2 finalized was to push meshes (along with hatches) to SVG 2.1.

That made me really sad and wondering: isn't there anything we can do to prevent that from happening? Can we make a petition or talk to Mozilla/Chrome/Opera/Vivaldi browser so they can implement this and this feature, as soon as it gets traction, to be kept in the 2.0 spec of SVG technology?

I'm not sure a petition would have any effect at this point. SVG 2 itself is in a precarious state. The working group is out of charter at the moment and it is not clear the charter will be reinstated. We are waiting to hear. A petition wouldn't hurt if it had enough signatures. Better would be to get lots of content on the web using meshes.

Ideas anyone? Is this too unrealistic or we can do something about it?

I remember google chrome almost removed SMIL feature from Google Chrome but then the feature got traction and started being used more and more... so they kept it.

Actually, Google was using SMIL in one if its own products (the right hand not knowing what the left hand was doing).

Tav


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Re: [Inkscape-user] Yesterday was SMIL and today is Mesh Gradients

Victor Westmann
Hi Tavm

So should we encourage tutorials that use Mesh Gradients in Inkscape and publicize them through our website?



--Victor Westmann

On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 2:43 AM, Tavmjong Bah <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thu, 2018-07-12 at 21:05 -0700, Victor Westmann wrote:
Hi fellow inkscapers,

I was amazed to read that inkscape already has Mesh Gradients (since version 0.92) just like Adobe Illustrator. Illustrator got this exact same feature in the version 8 (released in 1998). 20 years ago.

But it seems that Mesh Gradients will be removed from the SVG 2.0 specification. My question is WHY?

Nobody else has implemented the SVG version of mesh gradients. Adobe is interested but won't proceed until at least one browser has implemented it. Firefox was interested a few years ago. These things often depend on who is working on SVG at the moment.

To remain in the final publication, there must be at least two independent implementations... with one being in a browser. The pragmatic solution to getting SVG 2 finalized was to push meshes (along with hatches) to SVG 2.1.

That made me really sad and wondering: isn't there anything we can do to prevent that from happening? Can we make a petition or talk to Mozilla/Chrome/Opera/Vivaldi browser so they can implement this and this feature, as soon as it gets traction, to be kept in the 2.0 spec of SVG technology?

I'm not sure a petition would have any effect at this point. SVG 2 itself is in a precarious state. The working group is out of charter at the moment and it is not clear the charter will be reinstated. We are waiting to hear. A petition wouldn't hurt if it had enough signatures. Better would be to get lots of content on the web using meshes.

Ideas anyone? Is this too unrealistic or we can do something about it?

I remember google chrome almost removed SMIL feature from Google Chrome but then the feature got traction and started being used more and more... so they kept it.

Actually, Google was using SMIL in one if its own products (the right hand not knowing what the left hand was doing).

Tav


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Re: [Inkscape-user] Yesterday was SMIL and today is Mesh Gradients

Tavmjong Bah
On Fri, 2018-07-13 at 11:03 -0700, Victor Westmann wrote:
Hi Tavm

So should we encourage tutorials that use Mesh Gradients in Inkscape and publicize them through our website?


That would definitely help. The more people use meshes the better... but it won't help if they are ultimately rasterized (used as a PNG rather than an SVG) on the web. The browsers have "use" counters. We probably need to offer users the ability to add a JavaScript "polyfill" to their files that use meshes.




--Victor Westmann

On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 2:43 AM, Tavmjong Bah <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thu, 2018-07-12 at 21:05 -0700, Victor Westmann wrote:
Hi fellow inkscapers,

I was amazed to read that inkscape already has Mesh Gradients (since version 0.92) just like Adobe Illustrator. Illustrator got this exact same feature in the version 8 (released in 1998). 20 years ago.

But it seems that Mesh Gradients will be removed from the SVG 2.0 specification. My question is WHY?

Nobody else has implemented the SVG version of mesh gradients. Adobe is interested but won't proceed until at least one browser has implemented it. Firefox was interested a few years ago. These things often depend on who is working on SVG at the moment.

To remain in the final publication, there must be at least two independent implementations... with one being in a browser. The pragmatic solution to getting SVG 2 finalized was to push meshes (along with hatches) to SVG 2.1.

That made me really sad and wondering: isn't there anything we can do to prevent that from happening? Can we make a petition or talk to Mozilla/Chrome/Opera/Vivaldi browser so they can implement this and this feature, as soon as it gets traction, to be kept in the 2.0 spec of SVG technology?

I'm not sure a petition would have any effect at this point. SVG 2 itself is in a precarious state. The working group is out of charter at the moment and it is not clear the charter will be reinstated. We are waiting to hear. A petition wouldn't hurt if it had enough signatures. Better would be to get lots of content on the web using meshes.

Ideas anyone? Is this too unrealistic or we can do something about it?

I remember google chrome almost removed SMIL feature from Google Chrome but then the feature got traction and started being used more and more... so they kept it.

Actually, Google was using SMIL in one if its own products (the right hand not knowing what the left hand was doing).

Tav


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Re: [Inkscape-user] Yesterday was SMIL and today is Mesh Gradients

doctormo
On Fri, 2018-07-13 at 20:50 +0200, Tavmjong Bah wrote:
> That would definitely help. The more people use meshes the better...
> but it won't help if they are ultimately rasterized (used as a PNG
> rather than an SVG) on the web. The browsers have "use" counters. We
> probably need to offer users the ability to add a JavaScript
> "polyfill" to their files that use meshes.

A feature could be done for that for the website, but it requires that
the svg be embeded in the page and not just an <img tag. If browsers
render the SVG then you can get away with an SVG in an img tag, which
is much more secure.

So the website currently requires an administrator to turn on svg
embedding per item. And the feature isn't exposed to users in any way,
so there's no button that says "I see you're trying to use mesh
gradients, do you want to apply for embedding review to turn on the
pollyfil"

Anyone else got any ideas of how to safely operate user content so it
does't hack our website 😉

Best Regards, Martin Owens

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Re: [Inkscape-user] Yesterday was SMIL and today is Mesh Gradients

Jabier Arraiza
In reply to this post by Tavmjong Bah
One question if finally we have a polifill we can include it inside the SVG itself optionally?

Enviado desde TypeApp
En 13 jul. 2018, en 20:52, Tavmjong Bah <[hidden email]> escribió:
On Fri, 2018-07-13 at 11:03 -0700, Victor Westmann wrote:
Hi Tavm

So should we encourage tutorials that use Mesh Gradients in Inkscape and publicize them through our website?


That would definitely help. The more people use meshes the better... but it won't help if they are ultimately rasterized (used as a PNG rather than an SVG) on the web. The browsers have "use" counters. We probably need to offer users the ability to add a JavaScript "polyfill" to their files that use meshes.




--Victor Westmann

On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 2:43 AM, Tavmjong Bah <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thu, 2018-07-12 at 21:05 -0700, Victor Westmann wrote:
Hi fellow inkscapers,

I was amazed to read that inkscape already has Mesh Gradients (since version 0.92) just like Adobe Illustrator. Illustrator got this exact same feature in the version 8 (released in 1998). 20 years ago.

But it seems that Mesh Gradients will be removed from the SVG 2.0 specification. My question is WHY?

Nobody else has implemented the SVG version of mesh gradients. Adobe is interested but won't proceed until at least one browser has implemented it. Firefox was interested a few years ago. These things often depend on who is working on SVG at the moment.

To remain in the final publication, there must be at least two independent implementations... with one being in a browser. The pragmatic solution to getting SVG 2 finalized was to push meshes (along with hatches) to SVG 2.1.

That made me really sad and wondering: isn't there anything we can do to prevent that from happening? Can we make a petition or talk to Mozilla/Chrome/Opera/Vivaldi browser so they can implement this and this feature, as soon as it gets traction, to be kept in the 2.0 spec of SVG technology?

I'm not sure a petition would have any effect at this point. SVG 2 itself is in a precarious state. The working group is out of charter at the moment and it is not clear the charter will be reinstated. We are waiting to hear. A petition wouldn't hurt if it had enough signatures. Better would be to get lots of content on the web using meshes.

Ideas anyone? Is this too unrealistic or we can do something about it?

I remember google chrome almost removed SMIL feature from Google Chrome but then the feature got traction and started being used more and more... so they kept it.

Actually, Google was using SMIL in one if its own products (the right hand not knowing what the left hand was doing).

Tav


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Re: [Inkscape-user] Yesterday was SMIL and today is Mesh Gradients

Jabier Arraiza
Also we can use Houdini to render mesh gradients ;)

Enviado desde TypeApp
En 14 jul. 2018, en 3:27, Jabier Arraiza <[hidden email]> escribió:
One question if finally we have a polifill we can include it inside the SVG itself optionally?

Enviado desde TypeApp
En 13 jul. 2018, en 20:52, Tavmjong Bah < [hidden email]> escribió:
On Fri, 2018-07-13 at 11:03 -0700, Victor Westmann wrote:
Hi Tavm

So should we encourage tutorials that use Mesh Gradients in Inkscape and publicize them through our website?


That would definitely help. The more people use meshes the better... but it won't help if they are ultimately rasterized (used as a PNG rather than an SVG) on the web. The browsers have "use" counters. We probably need to offer users the ability to add a JavaScript "polyfill" to their files that use meshes.




--Victor Westmann

On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 2:43 AM, Tavmjong Bah <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thu, 2018-07-12 at 21:05 -0700, Victor Westmann wrote:
Hi fellow inkscapers,

I was amazed to read that inkscape already has Mesh Gradients (since version 0.92) just like Adobe Illustrator. Illustrator got this exact same feature in the version 8 (released in 1998). 20 years ago.

But it seems that Mesh Gradients will be removed from the SVG 2.0 specification. My question is WHY?

Nobody else has implemented the SVG version of mesh gradients. Adobe is interested but won't proceed until at least one browser has implemented it. Firefox was interested a few years ago. These things often depend on who is working on SVG at the moment.

To remain in the final publication, there must be at least two independent implementations... with one being in a browser. The pragmatic solution to getting SVG 2 finalized was to push meshes (along with hatches) to SVG 2.1.

That made me really sad and wondering: isn't there anything we can do to prevent that from happening? Can we make a petition or talk to Mozilla/Chrome/Opera/Vivaldi browser so they can implement this and this feature, as soon as it gets traction, to be kept in the 2.0 spec of SVG technology?

I'm not sure a petition would have any effect at this point. SVG 2 itself is in a precarious state. The working group is out of charter at the moment and it is not clear the charter will be reinstated. We are waiting to hear. A petition wouldn't hurt if it had enough signatures. Better would be to get lots of content on the web using meshes.

Ideas anyone? Is this too unrealistic or we can do something about it?

I remember google chrome almost removed SMIL feature from Google Chrome but then the feature got traction and started being used more and more... so they kept it.

Actually, Google was using SMIL in one if its own products (the right hand not knowing what the left hand was doing).

Tav


      

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Re: [Inkscape-user] Yesterday was SMIL and today is Mesh Gradients

Tavmjong Bah
In reply to this post by Jabier Arraiza
On Sat, 2018-07-14 at 03:25 +0200, Jabier Arraiza wrote:
> One question if finally we have a polifill we can include it inside
> the SVG itself optionally?

Still needs some work but handles fills without smoothing quite well:

http://tavmjong.free.fr/SVG/POLYFILL/MESH/mesh.html


> Enviado desde TypeApp
> En 13 jul. 2018, en 20:52, Tavmjong Bah <[hidden email]> escribió:
> > On Fri, 2018-07-13 at 11:03 -0700, Victor Westmann wrote:
> > > Hi Tavm
> > >
> > > So should we encourage tutorials that use Mesh Gradients in
> > > Inkscape and publicize them through our website?
> > >
> >
> > That would definitely help. The more people use meshes the
> > better... but it won't help if they are ultimately rasterized (used
> > as a PNG rather than an SVG) on the web. The browsers have "use"
> > counters. We probably need to offer users the ability to add a
> > JavaScript "polyfill" to their files that use meshes.
> >
> >
> >
> > > --Victor Westmann
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 2:43 AM, Tavmjong Bah <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > On Thu, 2018-07-12 at 21:05 -0700, Victor Westmann wrote:
> > > > > Hi fellow inkscapers,
> > > > >
> > > > > I was amazed to read that inkscape already has Mesh Gradients
> > > > > (since version 0.92) just like Adobe Illustrator. Illustrator
> > > > > got this exact same feature in the version 8 (released in
> > > > > 1998). 20 years ago.
> > > > >
> > > > > But it seems that Mesh Gradients will be removed from the SVG
> > > > > 2.0 specification. My question is WHY?
> > > >
> > > > Nobody else has implemented the SVG version of mesh gradients.
> > > > Adobe is interested but won't proceed until at least one
> > > > browser has implemented it. Firefox was interested a few years
> > > > ago. These things often depend on who is working on SVG at the
> > > > moment.
> > > >
> > > > To remain in the final publication, there must be at least two
> > > > independent implementations... with one being in a browser. The
> > > > pragmatic solution to getting SVG 2 finalized was to push
> > > > meshes (along with hatches) to SVG 2.1.
> > > >
> > > > > That made me really sad and wondering: isn't there anything
> > > > > we can do to prevent that from happening? Can we make a
> > > > > petition or talk to Mozilla/Chrome/Opera/Vivaldi browser so
> > > > > they can implement this and this feature, as soon as it gets
> > > > > traction, to be kept in the 2.0 spec of SVG technology?
> > > >
> > > > I'm not sure a petition would have any effect at this point.
> > > > SVG 2 itself is in a precarious state. The working group is out
> > > > of charter at the moment and it is not clear the charter will
> > > > be reinstated. We are waiting to hear. A petition wouldn't hurt
> > > > if it had enough signatures. Better would be to get lots of
> > > > content on the web using meshes.
> > > >
> > > > > Ideas anyone? Is this too unrealistic or we can do something
> > > > > about it?
> > > > >
> > > > > I remember google chrome almost removed SMIL feature from
> > > > > Google Chrome but then the feature got traction and started
> > > > > being used more and more... so they kept it.
> > > >
> > > > Actually, Google was using SMIL in one if its own products (the
> > > > right hand not knowing what the left hand was doing).
> > > >
> > > > Tav
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > -----------------
> > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Inkscape-user mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
> > > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ---------------
> > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> >
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> >
> > Inkscape-devel mailing list
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

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