Repairing a pixellated drop-shadow gradient

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Repairing a pixellated drop-shadow gradient

Peter Flynn
I have inherited a vector PDF and an SVG file of a logo made from
outlined letters with a gradated drop-shadow (see
http://xml.silmaril.ie/downloads/letterlogo.png for enlarged PNG fragment).

When the logo is enlarged (eg for use on a poster), the drop-shadow
shows up pixellated. Both files exhibit the identical problem. When
edited, the drop-shadow is indeed made up of pixels. I assume in my
ignorance that it was passed through some software at some stage in its
past which concretized the drop-shadow as graded pixels.

How would I go about removing the drop-shadow entirely, and replacing it
with one of identical color and extent, but done in such a way as to
withstand enlargement without deterioration?

Peter


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Re: Repairing a pixellated drop-shadow gradient

Brynn
Hi Peter,
        We'd need to see the PDF or SVG file, to be able to give specific
instructions.  Generally, you would use the status bar to find out which objects
are raster and which are vector.   When you select something with the Selection
tool, the status bar tells you what kind of object it is.  If the status bar
says "Image...." it's a raster object.  If it says "Path....", it's vector.  If
it says "Group...." you need to look inside the group.

        Then replace the rasterized objects.  I wouldn't delete the rasterized
drop shadow right away, because you can use it to get the right color for the
new shadow.

        There are a couple of ways to realize a drop shadow.  The easiest way is
Filters menu > Shadows and Glows > Drop Shadow.  Although you might have to
tweak the filter to get the color right.  (I say "might" because I don't
remember exactly how it works.) (If it's not obvious, and you want to use it,
just ask us.)

        Less easy would be to duplicate the object, move it below the original,
move it slightly down and/or over (i.e. drop it), then retrieve the color from
the old shadow and fill the duplicate object.  Then add a simple blur to it.

        If you'd like specific instructions, please share the SVG or PDF file.

All best,
brynn

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Flynn
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 6:29 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Inkscape-user] Repairing a pixellated drop-shadow gradient

I have inherited a vector PDF and an SVG file of a logo made from
outlined letters with a gradated drop-shadow (see
http://xml.silmaril.ie/downloads/letterlogo.png for enlarged PNG fragment).

When the logo is enlarged (eg for use on a poster), the drop-shadow
shows up pixellated. Both files exhibit the identical problem. When
edited, the drop-shadow is indeed made up of pixels. I assume in my
ignorance that it was passed through some software at some stage in its
past which concretized the drop-shadow as graded pixels.

How would I go about removing the drop-shadow entirely, and replacing it
with one of identical color and extent, but done in such a way as to
withstand enlargement without deterioration?

Peter


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Re: Repairing a pixellated drop-shadow gradient

Peter Flynn
On 14/04/2019 21:53, brynn wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>         We'd need to see the PDF or SVG file, to be able to give
> specific instructions.  Generally, you would use the status bar to find
> out which objects are raster and which are vector.   When you select
> something with the Selection tool, the status bar tells you what kind of
> object it is.  If the status bar says "Image...." it's a raster object.  
> If it says "Path....", it's vector.  If it says "Group...." you need to
> look inside the group.

I would need to ask the owner for permission to share the file
publically, which I will do. I can of course send it to an individual,
but I don't want to take up others' valuable time.

When I click with the Selection tool on one of the pixels of the
drop-shadow, all it does is select the entire image. But I know the
letters at least are paths because I can click on them with the Path tool.

Most likely the owner has passed the file through so many processes that
it is no longer editable.

>         Then replace the rasterized objects.  I wouldn't delete the
> rasterized drop shadow right away, because you can use it to get the
> right color for the new shadow.

If I could actually select the drop-shadow it would be a start.

>         There are a couple of ways to realize a drop shadow. [...]

Thanks very much for the pointers. With time pressure, it may be simpler
just to create a giant bitmap with the drop-shadow blurred sufficiently
so that the pixels are not noticeable. And worry about turning the image
back into a real vector later.

Peter

> -----Original Message----- From: Peter Flynn
> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 6:29 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Inkscape-user] Repairing a pixellated drop-shadow gradient
>
> I have inherited a vector PDF and an SVG file of a logo made from
> outlined letters with a gradated drop-shadow (see
> http://xml.silmaril.ie/downloads/letterlogo.png for enlarged PNG fragment).
>
> When the logo is enlarged (eg for use on a poster), the drop-shadow
> shows up pixellated. Both files exhibit the identical problem. When
> edited, the drop-shadow is indeed made up of pixels. I assume in my
> ignorance that it was passed through some software at some stage in its
> past which concretized the drop-shadow as graded pixels.
>
> How would I go about removing the drop-shadow entirely, and replacing it
> with one of identical color and extent, but done in such a way as to
> withstand enlargement without deterioration?
>
> Peter
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user


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Re: Repairing a pixellated drop-shadow gradient

TylerDurden
Hi Peter,

It's likely as Brynn says a group of objects including the rasterized shadow. 

Rasterization is a common occurrence when SVG files are converted to formats that don't support SVG filters. There wouldn't be a big issue if the scale of the image were large enough for posters.

I'd try to remove the shadow (keeping the letters) and scale the artwork up to poster size. Then add a shadow and save the SVG as a working-file.  Save a *copy* to PDF for the print shop. The shadow will be rasterized at the high resolution, so it should look ok.

In the future, you can return to the svg working-file to use it for other purposes (brochures/letterhead/web-graphics/etc.).

Have a nice day.
TD

On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 6:39 PM Peter Flynn <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 14/04/2019 21:53, brynn wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>         We'd need to see the PDF or SVG file, to be able to give
> specific instructions.  Generally, you would use the status bar to find
> out which objects are raster and which are vector.   When you select
> something with the Selection tool, the status bar tells you what kind of
> object it is.  If the status bar says "Image...." it's a raster object. 
> If it says "Path....", it's vector.  If it says "Group...." you need to
> look inside the group.

I would need to ask the owner for permission to share the file
publically, which I will do. I can of course send it to an individual,
but I don't want to take up others' valuable time.

When I click with the Selection tool on one of the pixels of the
drop-shadow, all it does is select the entire image. But I know the
letters at least are paths because I can click on them with the Path tool.

Most likely the owner has passed the file through so many processes that
it is no longer editable.

>         Then replace the rasterized objects.  I wouldn't delete the
> rasterized drop shadow right away, because you can use it to get the
> right color for the new shadow.

If I could actually select the drop-shadow it would be a start.

>         There are a couple of ways to realize a drop shadow. [...]

Thanks very much for the pointers. With time pressure, it may be simpler
just to create a giant bitmap with the drop-shadow blurred sufficiently
so that the pixels are not noticeable. And worry about turning the image
back into a real vector later.

Peter

> -----Original Message----- From: Peter Flynn
> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 6:29 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Inkscape-user] Repairing a pixellated drop-shadow gradient
>
> I have inherited a vector PDF and an SVG file of a logo made from
> outlined letters with a gradated drop-shadow (see
> http://xml.silmaril.ie/downloads/letterlogo.png for enlarged PNG fragment).
>
> When the logo is enlarged (eg for use on a poster), the drop-shadow
> shows up pixellated. Both files exhibit the identical problem. When
> edited, the drop-shadow is indeed made up of pixels. I assume in my
> ignorance that it was passed through some software at some stage in its
> past which concretized the drop-shadow as graded pixels.
>
> How would I go about removing the drop-shadow entirely, and replacing it
> with one of identical color and extent, but done in such a way as to
> withstand enlargement without deterioration?
>
> Peter
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user


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Re: Repairing a pixellated drop-shadow gradient

Brynn
In reply to this post by Peter Flynn
> If I could actually select the drop-shadow it would be a start.

It should be selectable.  You would not be able to select the pixels.  But you
should be able to select the object - the raster image.   (Status bar will say
"Image....")  Just move the whole thing to the side, temporarily.  After you get
the color from it, you can delete it.

If you can't select it alone, check the status bar.  I would guess it says
"Group....".  So Ungroup, deselect everything, and try to select it again.

I'm online now, and have time to look at the file.  You could send it to me
privately, if you like.  I'll probably be online for another few hours this
evening.  (After that it would probably be Mon night or Tues before I'm
available, but someone else would probably step up.)

brynn

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Flynn
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 4:38 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] Repairing a pixellated drop-shadow gradient

On 14/04/2019 21:53, brynn wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>         We'd need to see the PDF or SVG file, to be able to give specific
> instructions.  Generally, you would use the status bar to find out which
> objects are raster and which are vector.   When you select something with the
> Selection tool, the status bar tells you what kind of object it is.  If the
> status bar says "Image...." it's a raster object.  If it says "Path....", it's
> vector.  If it says "Group...." you need to look inside the group.

I would need to ask the owner for permission to share the file
publically, which I will do. I can of course send it to an individual,
but I don't want to take up others' valuable time.

When I click with the Selection tool on one of the pixels of the
drop-shadow, all it does is select the entire image. But I know the
letters at least are paths because I can click on them with the Path tool.

Most likely the owner has passed the file through so many processes that
it is no longer editable.

>         Then replace the rasterized objects.  I wouldn't delete the rasterized
> drop shadow right away, because you can use it to get the right color for the
> new shadow.

If I could actually select the drop-shadow it would be a start.

>         There are a couple of ways to realize a drop shadow. [...]

Thanks very much for the pointers. With time pressure, it may be simpler
just to create a giant bitmap with the drop-shadow blurred sufficiently
so that the pixels are not noticeable. And worry about turning the image
back into a real vector later.

Peter

> -----Original Message----- From: Peter Flynn
> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 6:29 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Inkscape-user] Repairing a pixellated drop-shadow gradient
>
> I have inherited a vector PDF and an SVG file of a logo made from
> outlined letters with a gradated drop-shadow (see
> http://xml.silmaril.ie/downloads/letterlogo.png for enlarged PNG fragment).
>
> When the logo is enlarged (eg for use on a poster), the drop-shadow
> shows up pixellated. Both files exhibit the identical problem. When
> edited, the drop-shadow is indeed made up of pixels. I assume in my
> ignorance that it was passed through some software at some stage in its
> past which concretized the drop-shadow as graded pixels.
>
> How would I go about removing the drop-shadow entirely, and replacing it
> with one of identical color and extent, but done in such a way as to
> withstand enlargement without deterioration?
>
> Peter
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user


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Re: Repairing a pixellated drop-shadow gradient

Peter Flynn
In reply to this post by TylerDurden
On 14/04/2019 23:54, Tyler Durden wrote:
> It's likely as Brynn says a group of objects including the rasterized
> shadow.

Quite possibly.

> Rasterization is a common occurrence when SVG files are converted to
> formats that don't support SVG filters. There wouldn't be a big issue if
> the scale of the image were large enough for posters.

This is an SVG file, so presumably for it to be corrupted in this way,
it would have had to have been converted to something else (PDF?) and
then converted back to SVG?

It should of course be scale-free, so that it can be used at any size.
The original designer would have known this, but it has passed through
several hands since then, alas.

> I'd try to remove the shadow (keeping the letters) and scale the artwork
> up to poster size.

It's just a logo, and it works fine in the corner of an A0 poster, so no
scaling of the letters is needed.

> Then add a shadow and save the SVG as a
> working-file.  Save a *copy* to PDF for the print shop. The shadow will
> be rasterized at the high resolution, so it should look ok.

Yes, that's what I intended. If I could actually select anything...

///Peter


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Re: Repairing a pixellated drop-shadow gradient

Peter Flynn
In reply to this post by Brynn
On 15/04/2019 01:13, brynn wrote:
>> If I could actually select the drop-shadow it would be a start.

The file is at http://xml.silmaril.ie/downloads/xmlss-cropped.svg

> It should be selectable.  You would not be able to select the pixels.  

Surely if the drop-shadow was a bitmap I *would* be able to select the
pixels?

> But you should be able to select the object - the raster image.  

Nope...clicking on any part just selects the entire thing.

> (Status bar will say "Image....")  Just move the whole thing to the
> side, temporarily.  After you get the color from it, you can delete it.
>
> If you can't select it alone, check the status bar.  I would guess it
> says "Group....".  So Ungroup, deselect everything, and try to select it
> again.

Useful, thanks. But Ungroup has no effect.

It's weird. I've used Inkscape on and off for years to fix vector
graphics, and never had this problem.

Thanks so much for all your help.

///Peter


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Re: Repairing a pixellated drop-shadow gradient

TylerDurden
Hi Peter,

I examined the file.  It looks very much like it was processed as a pdf prior to re-conversion to SVG.

You can select the largest group, then ungroup a number of times to get the objects completely separated (watch the information area in the status bar at the bottom of the screen). You can also see an inventory of all objects in the Objects dialog (Menu: Object>Objects). Once you ungroup repeatedly until there are no more groups, you can proceed.

You will find a number of embedded images used as clipping objects; they can be deleted without issue.

Chime back and keep us posted.

Have a nice day.
TD

On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 9:01 AM Peter Flynn <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 15/04/2019 01:13, brynn wrote:
>> If I could actually select the drop-shadow it would be a start.

The file is at http://xml.silmaril.ie/downloads/xmlss-cropped.svg

> It should be selectable.  You would not be able to select the pixels. 

Surely if the drop-shadow was a bitmap I *would* be able to select the
pixels?

> But you should be able to select the object - the raster image.   

Nope...clicking on any part just selects the entire thing.

> (Status bar will say "Image....")  Just move the whole thing to the
> side, temporarily.  After you get the color from it, you can delete it.
>
> If you can't select it alone, check the status bar.  I would guess it
> says "Group....".  So Ungroup, deselect everything, and try to select it
> again.

Useful, thanks. But Ungroup has no effect.

It's weird. I've used Inkscape on and off for years to fix vector
graphics, and never had this problem.

Thanks so much for all your help.

///Peter


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Re: Repairing a pixellated drop-shadow gradient

Jason H
Back in the day 2006? I think gradients and other things were rasterized by adobe (and maybe other) tools. 
I would suggest trying a gauss blur, with an unsharp mask to get back some edges. But I think once it's been rasterized, you'd have to reconstruct the gradients by sampling/math.
 
HTH
 
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 at 9:28 AM
From: "Tyler Durden" <[hidden email]>
To: "Inkscape User Community" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] Repairing a pixellated drop-shadow gradient
Hi Peter,
 
I examined the file.  It looks very much like it was processed as a pdf prior to re-conversion to SVG.
 
You can select the largest group, then ungroup a number of times to get the objects completely separated (watch the information area in the status bar at the bottom of the screen). You can also see an inventory of all objects in the Objects dialog (Menu: Object>Objects). Once you ungroup repeatedly until there are no more groups, you can proceed.
 
You will find a number of embedded images used as clipping objects; they can be deleted without issue.
 
Chime back and keep us posted.
 
Have a nice day.
TD
 
On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 9:01 AM Peter Flynn <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 15/04/2019 01:13, brynn wrote:
>> If I could actually select the drop-shadow it would be a start.

The file is at http://xml.silmaril.ie/downloads/xmlss-cropped.svg

> It should be selectable.  You would not be able to select the pixels. 

Surely if the drop-shadow was a bitmap I *would* be able to select the
pixels?

> But you should be able to select the object - the raster image.   

Nope...clicking on any part just selects the entire thing.

> (Status bar will say "Image....")  Just move the whole thing to the
> side, temporarily.  After you get the color from it, you can delete it.
>
> If you can't select it alone, check the status bar.  I would guess it
> says "Group....".  So Ungroup, deselect everything, and try to select it
> again.

Useful, thanks. But Ungroup has no effect.

It's weird. I've used Inkscape on and off for years to fix vector
graphics, and never had this problem.

Thanks so much for all your help.

///Peter


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