SVG in 92 and Phyisical Scale

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SVG in 92 and Phyisical Scale

James Fritzler

Hi Inkscape Devs!


I’ve used Inkscape for about five years now and have built up quite the library of svg files and have been using 91 since its release.  My main creative effort is to build paper toys that I print and cut (in bulk) on a Silhouette Portrait cutting machine.  (More info on my works at http://netroids.net ).  I have a 100s of files and hoped to use them as my long term "masters” given that SVG is not proprietary and has had such great page layout fidelity for me.


I’d love to update to v92 and future versions but, as is commonly known, the svg save logic has changed to support a new CSS standard of 96dpi and it is affecting my ability to import into my cutting software.


It seems that perhaps the values written by Inkscape in 91 svg files are encoded using a 90dpi scale from their original design-time dimensions. In the past I’ve had much success importing SVGs from Inkscape 91 into Silhouette studio for years.  (Granted, I do perform a little cleansing in a copy of the master svg before I go to Silhouette: I simplify the layers, ungroup, and flatten out clones into their own objects. Perhaps it is just serendipity that the Silhouette Studio imports SVGs at the 90dpi.  (I tried asking them about dpi but I couldn’t "break through" their first-tier help desk support "fire wall".)


I know there’s an import prompt and process for opening 91 files in 92 and I have participated in the launchpad forum and chat with Mc about this topic.  (my user name is jimbox13).


Unfortunate for me, none of the prompts give a workable solution.  Here’s what happens to my files based on each option.  (I used a diff tool in to investigate some of the changes.) 

  • "Accuracy for sizes and position of paths" (Desired option)
    • Grid and guides appear to be changed – though I’m not sure to what extent.
    • Rectangles, paths and strokes are sized up by 6.667%
    • Inkscape Designer Outcome:  shapes and sizes correct right based on the page. :)  (bug #1712114 occurs.)
    • Cutter Software Outcome: File is too large (by 6.667%) for cutting area.  :(
  • "Digital Art"
    • Grid and guides changed to some degree.
    • Rectangles and paths not changed.
    • Inkscape Designer Outcome:  shapes and sizes are too small for the page :(
    • Cutter Software Outcome: shapes and sizes are correct :)
  • "Accuracy for masks and clips"
    • Grid and guides changed to some degree.
    • Rectangles, paths and strokes are changed to some degree, not the same as above.
    • Inkscape Designer Outcome:  shapes and sizes correct right based on the page. :)  (bug #1712114 does not occur.)
    • Cutter Software Outcome: File is significantly too small for cutting area.  :(

None of these options produce a svg that maintains its correct physical dimensions across both software packages.  I tried experimenting by customizing the "units.xml" file in 92 without success.


Here is my original v91 file zipped.  (I added a background rectangle that is the size of the page to help troubleshooting.)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q6o17j5an2piiw3/acutra_TOCUTv91wBG.zip?dl=0


Is there anything that can be done?

Thanks

 

Jim


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Re: SVG in 92 and Phyisical Scale

Martin Owens-2
Hi James,

It seems like the main issue is thrice fold:

A) opening SVG 1.1 file means we have to convert it to SVG 2.0 dpi,
even though the spec isn't released, we've cut off the published spec
support too early.
B) We can't save physical units into the svg files themselves,
mitigating issues of external unit compatibility.
C) We don't have any capacity for users to change the way svg is saved
to indicate which svg spec we should use.

So we've got quite the compatibility problem. This isn't an issue if
one exports pdf files or printing to cut, but is a problem in this
case where the cutting software is consuming svg files directly.

Tav and others: For 0.93, do we have a plan to try and help this situation?

If we can provide a way to save physical units and set svg 1.1 or svg
2.0 outputs, we should be covering all bases.

Best Regards, Martin Owens

On 23 August 2017 at 11:10, James Fritzler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Inkscape Devs!
>
>
> I’ve used Inkscape for about five years now and have built up quite the
> library of svg files and have been using 91 since its release.  My main
> creative effort is to build paper toys that I print and cut (in bulk) on a
> Silhouette Portrait cutting machine.  (More info on my works at
> http://netroids.net ).  I have a 100s of files and hoped to use them as my
> long term "masters” given that SVG is not proprietary and has had such great
> page layout fidelity for me.
>
>
> I’d love to update to v92 and future versions but, as is commonly known, the
> svg save logic has changed to support a new CSS standard of 96dpi and it is
> affecting my ability to import into my cutting software.
>
>
> It seems that perhaps the values written by Inkscape in 91 svg files are
> encoded using a 90dpi scale from their original design-time dimensions. In
> the past I’ve had much success importing SVGs from Inkscape 91 into
> Silhouette studio for years.  (Granted, I do perform a little cleansing in a
> copy of the master svg before I go to Silhouette: I simplify the layers,
> ungroup, and flatten out clones into their own objects. Perhaps it is just
> serendipity that the Silhouette Studio imports SVGs at the 90dpi.  (I tried
> asking them about dpi but I couldn’t "break through" their first-tier help
> desk support "fire wall".)
>
>
> I know there’s an import prompt and process for opening 91 files in 92 and I
> have participated in the launchpad forum and chat with Mc about this topic.
> (my user name is jimbox13).
>
>
> Unfortunate for me, none of the prompts give a workable solution.  Here’s
> what happens to my files based on each option.  (I used a diff tool in to
> investigate some of the changes.)
>
> "Accuracy for sizes and position of paths" (Desired option)
>
> Grid and guides appear to be changed – though I’m not sure to what extent.
> Rectangles, paths and strokes are sized up by 6.667%
> Inkscape Designer Outcome:  shapes and sizes correct right based on the
> page. :)  (bug #1712114 occurs.)
> Cutter Software Outcome: File is too large (by 6.667%) for cutting area.  :(
>
> "Digital Art"
>
> Grid and guides changed to some degree.
> Rectangles and paths not changed.
> Inkscape Designer Outcome:  shapes and sizes are too small for the page :(
> Cutter Software Outcome: shapes and sizes are correct :)
>
> "Accuracy for masks and clips"
>
> Grid and guides changed to some degree.
> Rectangles, paths and strokes are changed to some degree, not the same as
> above.
> Inkscape Designer Outcome:  shapes and sizes correct right based on the
> page. :)  (bug #1712114 does not occur.)
> Cutter Software Outcome: File is significantly too small for cutting area.
> :(
>
> None of these options produce a svg that maintains its correct physical
> dimensions across both software packages.  I tried experimenting by
> customizing the "units.xml" file in 92 without success.
>
>
> Here is my original v91 file zipped.  (I added a background rectangle that
> is the size of the page to help troubleshooting.)
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/q6o17j5an2piiw3/acutra_TOCUTv91wBG.zip?dl=0
>
>
> Is there anything that can be done?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Jim
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>

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Re: SVG in 92 and Phyisical Scale

Jabier Arraiza
In reply to this post by James Fritzler
Hi James, Not only I program it but su_v and Tav do a great work on it.

Just 96->90 if the document is converted at open.

Cheers, Jabier.

On Thu, 2017-08-24 at 15:19 +0000, James Fritzler wrote:

> I have not tried it yet, but I see that you programmed it. It sounds
> really useful! :)
>
> What steps should I use when I open the 91 file in 92 : Should I
> first use the "digital art" option? and then use the 96 to 90 switch?
> or should I try one of the other 2 options first (when opening the
> old file)?
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2017 7:17:24 AM
> To: Martin Owens; James Fritzler
> Cc: Inkscape-Devel
> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] SVG in 92 and Phyisical Scale
>
>
> Hi james, could you try the extension dpi switcher to convert to 90
> Dpi?
>
>
>
> Enviado desde mi móvil LG
>
> ------ Mensaje original ------
> De: Martin Owens
> Fecha: 24/08/2017 15:10
> Para: James Fritzler;
> CC: Inkscape-Devel;
> Asunto:Re: [Inkscape-devel] SVG in 92 and Phyisical Scale
>
>
> Hi James,
>
> It seems like the main issue is thrice fold:
>
> A) opening SVG 1.1 file means we have to convert it to SVG 2.0 dpi,
> even though the spec isn't released, we've cut off the published spec
> support too early.
> B) We can't save physical units into the svg files themselves,
> mitigating issues of external unit compatibility.
> C) We don't have any capacity for users to change the way svg is
> saved
> to indicate which svg spec we should use.
>
> So we've got quite the compatibility problem. This isn't an issue if
> one exports pdf files or printing to cut, but is a problem in this
> case where the cutting software is consuming svg files directly.
>
> Tav and others: For 0.93, do we have a plan to try and help this
> situation?
>
> If we can provide a way to save physical units and set svg 1.1 or svg
> 2.0 outputs, we should be covering all bases.
>
> Best Regards, Martin Owens
>
> On 23 August 2017 at 11:10, James Fritzler  wrote:
> > Hi Inkscape Devs!
> >
> >
> > I’ve used Inkscape for about five years now and have built up quite
> > the
> > library of svg files and have been using 91 since its release.  My
> > main
> > creative effort is to build paper toys that I print and cut (in
> > bulk) on a
> > Silhouette Portrait cutting machine.  (More info on my works at
> > http://netroids.net ).  I have a 100s of files and hoped to use
> > them as my
> > long term "masters” given that SVG is not proprietary and has had
> > such great
> > page layout fidelity for me.
> >
> >
> > I’d love to update to v92 and future versions but, as is commonly
> > known, the
> > svg save logic has changed to support a new CSS standard of 96dpi
> > and it is
> > affecting my ability to import into my cutting software.
> >
> >
> > It seems that perhaps the values written by Inkscape in 91 svg
> > files are
> > encoded using a 90dpi scale from their original design-time
> > dimensions. In
> > the past I’ve had much success importing SVGs from Inkscape 91 into
> > Silhouette studio for years.  (Granted, I do perform a little
> > cleansing in a
> > copy of the master svg before I go to Silhouette: I simplify the
> > layers,
> > ungroup, and flatten out clones into their own objects. Perhaps it
> > is just
> > serendipity that the Silhouette Studio imports SVGs at the
> > 90dpi.  (I tried
> > asking them about dpi but I couldn’t "break through" their first-
> > tier help
> > desk support "fire wall".)
> >
> >
> > I know there’s an import prompt and process for opening 91 files in
> > 92 and I
> > have participated in the launchpad forum and chat with Mc about
> > this topic.
> > (my user name is jimbox13).
> >
> >
> > Unfortunate for me, none of the prompts give a workable
> > solution.  Here’s
> > what happens to my files based on each option.  (I used a diff tool
> > in to
> > investigate some of the changes.)
> >
> > "Accuracy for sizes and position of paths" (Desired option)
> >
> > Grid and guides appear to be changed – though I’m not sure to what
> > extent.
> > Rectangles, paths and strokes are sized up by 6.667%
> > Inkscape Designer Outcome:  shapes and sizes correct right based on
> > the
> > page. :)  (bug #1712114 occurs.)
> > Cutter Software Outcome: File is too large (by 6.667%) for cutting
> > area.  :(
> >
> > "Digital Art"
> >
> > Grid and guides changed to some degree.
> > Rectangles and paths not changed.
> > Inkscape Designer Outcome:  shapes and sizes are too small for the
> > page :(
> > Cutter Software Outcome: shapes and sizes are correct :)
> >
> > "Accuracy for masks and clips"
> >
> > Grid and guides changed to some degree.
> > Rectangles, paths and strokes are changed to some degree, not the
> > same as
> > above.
> > Inkscape Designer Outcome:  shapes and sizes correct right based on
> > the
> > page. :)  (bug #1712114 does not occur.)
> > Cutter Software Outcome: File is significantly too small for
> > cutting area.
> > :(
> >
> > None of these options produce a svg that maintains its correct
> > physical
> > dimensions across both software packages.  I tried experimenting by
> > customizing the "units.xml" file in 92 without success.
> >
> >
> > Here is my original v91 file zipped.  (I added a background
> > rectangle that
> > is the size of the page to help troubleshooting.)
> >
> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/q6o17j5an2piiw3/acutra_TOCUTv91wBG.zip?dl
> > =0
> >
> >
> > Is there anything that can be done?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------------
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > _______________________________________________
> > Inkscape-devel mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
> >
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
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Re: SVG in 92 and Phyisical Scale

Martin Owens-2
Jabier,

Was the extension shipped with 0.92.2? Is it an extension that exists
in the extensions menu or is it a save option?

Best Regards, Martin Owens

On 24 August 2017 at 12:31, Jabier Arraiza <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi James, Not only I program it but su_v and Tav do a great work on it.
>
> Just 96->90 if the document is converted at open.
>
> Cheers, Jabier.
>
> On Thu, 2017-08-24 at 15:19 +0000, James Fritzler wrote:
>> I have not tried it yet, but I see that you programmed it. It sounds
>> really useful! :)
>>
>> What steps should I use when I open the 91 file in 92 : Should I
>> first use the "digital art" option? and then use the 96 to 90 switch?
>> or should I try one of the other 2 options first (when opening the
>> old file)?
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2017 7:17:24 AM
>> To: Martin Owens; James Fritzler
>> Cc: Inkscape-Devel
>> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] SVG in 92 and Phyisical Scale
>>
>>
>> Hi james, could you try the extension dpi switcher to convert to 90
>> Dpi?
>>
>>
>>
>> Enviado desde mi móvil LG
>>
>> ------ Mensaje original ------
>> De: Martin Owens
>> Fecha: 24/08/2017 15:10
>> Para: James Fritzler;
>> CC: Inkscape-Devel;
>> Asunto:Re: [Inkscape-devel] SVG in 92 and Phyisical Scale
>>
>>
>> Hi James,
>>
>> It seems like the main issue is thrice fold:
>>
>> A) opening SVG 1.1 file means we have to convert it to SVG 2.0 dpi,
>> even though the spec isn't released, we've cut off the published spec
>> support too early.
>> B) We can't save physical units into the svg files themselves,
>> mitigating issues of external unit compatibility.
>> C) We don't have any capacity for users to change the way svg is
>> saved
>> to indicate which svg spec we should use.
>>
>> So we've got quite the compatibility problem. This isn't an issue if
>> one exports pdf files or printing to cut, but is a problem in this
>> case where the cutting software is consuming svg files directly.
>>
>> Tav and others: For 0.93, do we have a plan to try and help this
>> situation?
>>
>> If we can provide a way to save physical units and set svg 1.1 or svg
>> 2.0 outputs, we should be covering all bases.
>>
>> Best Regards, Martin Owens
>>
>> On 23 August 2017 at 11:10, James Fritzler  wrote:
>> > Hi Inkscape Devs!
>> >
>> >
>> > I’ve used Inkscape for about five years now and have built up quite
>> > the
>> > library of svg files and have been using 91 since its release.  My
>> > main
>> > creative effort is to build paper toys that I print and cut (in
>> > bulk) on a
>> > Silhouette Portrait cutting machine.  (More info on my works at
>> > http://netroids.net ).  I have a 100s of files and hoped to use
>> > them as my
>> > long term "masters” given that SVG is not proprietary and has had
>> > such great
>> > page layout fidelity for me.
>> >
>> >
>> > I’d love to update to v92 and future versions but, as is commonly
>> > known, the
>> > svg save logic has changed to support a new CSS standard of 96dpi
>> > and it is
>> > affecting my ability to import into my cutting software.
>> >
>> >
>> > It seems that perhaps the values written by Inkscape in 91 svg
>> > files are
>> > encoded using a 90dpi scale from their original design-time
>> > dimensions. In
>> > the past I’ve had much success importing SVGs from Inkscape 91 into
>> > Silhouette studio for years.  (Granted, I do perform a little
>> > cleansing in a
>> > copy of the master svg before I go to Silhouette: I simplify the
>> > layers,
>> > ungroup, and flatten out clones into their own objects. Perhaps it
>> > is just
>> > serendipity that the Silhouette Studio imports SVGs at the
>> > 90dpi.  (I tried
>> > asking them about dpi but I couldn’t "break through" their first-
>> > tier help
>> > desk support "fire wall".)
>> >
>> >
>> > I know there’s an import prompt and process for opening 91 files in
>> > 92 and I
>> > have participated in the launchpad forum and chat with Mc about
>> > this topic.
>> > (my user name is jimbox13).
>> >
>> >
>> > Unfortunate for me, none of the prompts give a workable
>> > solution.  Here’s
>> > what happens to my files based on each option.  (I used a diff tool
>> > in to
>> > investigate some of the changes.)
>> >
>> > "Accuracy for sizes and position of paths" (Desired option)
>> >
>> > Grid and guides appear to be changed – though I’m not sure to what
>> > extent.
>> > Rectangles, paths and strokes are sized up by 6.667%
>> > Inkscape Designer Outcome:  shapes and sizes correct right based on
>> > the
>> > page. :)  (bug #1712114 occurs.)
>> > Cutter Software Outcome: File is too large (by 6.667%) for cutting
>> > area.  :(
>> >
>> > "Digital Art"
>> >
>> > Grid and guides changed to some degree.
>> > Rectangles and paths not changed.
>> > Inkscape Designer Outcome:  shapes and sizes are too small for the
>> > page :(
>> > Cutter Software Outcome: shapes and sizes are correct :)
>> >
>> > "Accuracy for masks and clips"
>> >
>> > Grid and guides changed to some degree.
>> > Rectangles, paths and strokes are changed to some degree, not the
>> > same as
>> > above.
>> > Inkscape Designer Outcome:  shapes and sizes correct right based on
>> > the
>> > page. :)  (bug #1712114 does not occur.)
>> > Cutter Software Outcome: File is significantly too small for
>> > cutting area.
>> > :(
>> >
>> > None of these options produce a svg that maintains its correct
>> > physical
>> > dimensions across both software packages.  I tried experimenting by
>> > customizing the "units.xml" file in 92 without success.
>> >
>> >
>> > Here is my original v91 file zipped.  (I added a background
>> > rectangle that
>> > is the size of the page to help troubleshooting.)
>> >
>> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/q6o17j5an2piiw3/acutra_TOCUTv91wBG.zip?dl
>> > =0
>> >
>> >
>> > Is there anything that can be done?
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Jim
>> >
>> >
>> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> > -------------
>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Inkscape-devel mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>> >
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -----------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Inkscape-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>

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Re: SVG in 92 and Phyisical Scale

James Fritzler
In reply to this post by Jabier Arraiza
great! but I need to know what the best conversion option to choose when my v91 (90dpi) svg first gets opened in v92. ( it seems like that would make a difference later when I run the extension)


On Aug 24, 2017, at 10:31 AM, Jabier Arraiza <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi James, Not only I program it but su_v and Tav do a great work on it.

Just 96->90 if the document is converted at open.

Cheers, Jabier.

> On Thu, 2017-08-24 at 15:19 +0000, James Fritzler wrote:
> I have not tried it yet, but I see that you programmed it. It sounds
> really useful! :)
>
> What steps should I use when I open the 91 file in 92 : Should I
> first use the "digital art" option? and then use the 96 to 90 switch?
> or should I try one of the other 2 options first (when opening the
> old file)?
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2017 7:17:24 AM
> To: Martin Owens; James Fritzler
> Cc: Inkscape-Devel
> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] SVG in 92 and Phyisical Scale
>
>
> Hi james, could you try the extension dpi switcher to convert to 90
> Dpi?
>
>
>
> Enviado desde mi móvil LG
>
> ------ Mensaje original ------
> De: Martin Owens
> Fecha: 24/08/2017 15:10
> Para: James Fritzler;
> CC: Inkscape-Devel;
> Asunto:Re: [Inkscape-devel] SVG in 92 and Phyisical Scale
>
>
> Hi James,
>
> It seems like the main issue is thrice fold:
>
> A) opening SVG 1.1 file means we have to convert it to SVG 2.0 dpi,
> even though the spec isn't released, we've cut off the published spec
> support too early.
> B) We can't save physical units into the svg files themselves,
> mitigating issues of external unit compatibility.
> C) We don't have any capacity for users to change the way svg is
> saved
> to indicate which svg spec we should use.
>
> So we've got quite the compatibility problem. This isn't an issue if
> one exports pdf files or printing to cut, but is a problem in this
> case where the cutting software is consuming svg files directly.
>
> Tav and others: For 0.93, do we have a plan to try and help this
> situation?
>
> If we can provide a way to save physical units and set svg 1.1 or svg
> 2.0 outputs, we should be covering all bases.
>
> Best Regards, Martin Owens
>
>> On 23 August 2017 at 11:10, James Fritzler  wrote:
>> Hi Inkscape Devs!
>>
>>
>> I’ve used Inkscape for about five years now and have built up quite
>> the
>> library of svg files and have been using 91 since its release.  My
>> main
>> creative effort is to build paper toys that I print and cut (in
>> bulk) on a
>> Silhouette Portrait cutting machine.  (More info on my works at
>> http://netroids.net ).  I have a 100s of files and hoped to use
>> them as my
>> long term "masters” given that SVG is not proprietary and has had
>> such great
>> page layout fidelity for me.
>>
>>
>> I’d love to update to v92 and future versions but, as is commonly
>> known, the
>> svg save logic has changed to support a new CSS standard of 96dpi
>> and it is
>> affecting my ability to import into my cutting software.
>>
>>
>> It seems that perhaps the values written by Inkscape in 91 svg
>> files are
>> encoded using a 90dpi scale from their original design-time
>> dimensions. In
>> the past I’ve had much success importing SVGs from Inkscape 91 into
>> Silhouette studio for years.  (Granted, I do perform a little
>> cleansing in a
>> copy of the master svg before I go to Silhouette: I simplify the
>> layers,
>> ungroup, and flatten out clones into their own objects. Perhaps it
>> is just
>> serendipity that the Silhouette Studio imports SVGs at the
>> 90dpi.  (I tried
>> asking them about dpi but I couldn’t "break through" their first-
>> tier help
>> desk support "fire wall".)
>>
>>
>> I know there’s an import prompt and process for opening 91 files in
>> 92 and I
>> have participated in the launchpad forum and chat with Mc about
>> this topic.
>> (my user name is jimbox13).
>>
>>
>> Unfortunate for me, none of the prompts give a workable
>> solution.  Here’s
>> what happens to my files based on each option.  (I used a diff tool
>> in to
>> investigate some of the changes.)
>>
>> "Accuracy for sizes and position of paths" (Desired option)
>>
>> Grid and guides appear to be changed – though I’m not sure to what
>> extent.
>> Rectangles, paths and strokes are sized up by 6.667%
>> Inkscape Designer Outcome:  shapes and sizes correct right based on
>> the
>> page. :)  (bug #1712114 occurs.)
>> Cutter Software Outcome: File is too large (by 6.667%) for cutting
>> area.  :(
>>
>> "Digital Art"
>>
>> Grid and guides changed to some degree.
>> Rectangles and paths not changed.
>> Inkscape Designer Outcome:  shapes and sizes are too small for the
>> page :(
>> Cutter Software Outcome: shapes and sizes are correct :)
>>
>> "Accuracy for masks and clips"
>>
>> Grid and guides changed to some degree.
>> Rectangles, paths and strokes are changed to some degree, not the
>> same as
>> above.
>> Inkscape Designer Outcome:  shapes and sizes correct right based on
>> the
>> page. :)  (bug #1712114 does not occur.)
>> Cutter Software Outcome: File is significantly too small for
>> cutting area.
>> :(
>>
>> None of these options produce a svg that maintains its correct
>> physical
>> dimensions across both software packages.  I tried experimenting by
>> customizing the "units.xml" file in 92 without success.
>>
>>
>> Here is my original v91 file zipped.  (I added a background
>> rectangle that
>> is the size of the page to help troubleshooting.)
>>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/q6o17j5an2piiw3/acutra_TOCUTv91wBG.zip?dl
>> =0
>>
>>
>> Is there anything that can be done?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Inkscape-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: SVG in 92 and Phyisical Scale

Jabier Arraiza
In reply to this post by Martin Owens-2
Hi Martin!
The extension is on Extensions->Document->DPI 96 to 90

All the best, Jabier.

On Thu, 2017-08-24 at 12:58 -0400, Martin Owens wrote:

> Jabier,
>
> Was the extension shipped with 0.92.2? Is it an extension that exists
> in the extensions menu or is it a save option?
>
> Best Regards, Martin Owens
>
> On 24 August 2017 at 12:31, Jabier Arraiza <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Hi James, Not only I program it but su_v and Tav do a great work on
> > it.
> >
> > Just 96->90 if the document is converted at open.
> >
> > Cheers, Jabier.
> >
> > On Thu, 2017-08-24 at 15:19 +0000, James Fritzler wrote:
> > > I have not tried it yet, but I see that you programmed it. It
> > > sounds
> > > really useful! :)
> > >
> > > What steps should I use when I open the 91 file in 92 : Should I
> > > first use the "digital art" option? and then use the 96 to 90
> > > switch?
> > > or should I try one of the other 2 options first (when opening
> > > the
> > > old file)?
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2017 7:17:24 AM
> > > To: Martin Owens; James Fritzler
> > > Cc: Inkscape-Devel
> > > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] SVG in 92 and Phyisical Scale
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi james, could you try the extension dpi switcher to convert to
> > > 90
> > > Dpi?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Enviado desde mi móvil LG
> > >
> > > ------ Mensaje original ------
> > > De: Martin Owens
> > > Fecha: 24/08/2017 15:10
> > > Para: James Fritzler;
> > > CC: Inkscape-Devel;
> > > Asunto:Re: [Inkscape-devel] SVG in 92 and Phyisical Scale
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi James,
> > >
> > > It seems like the main issue is thrice fold:
> > >
> > > A) opening SVG 1.1 file means we have to convert it to SVG 2.0
> > > dpi,
> > > even though the spec isn't released, we've cut off the published
> > > spec
> > > support too early.
> > > B) We can't save physical units into the svg files themselves,
> > > mitigating issues of external unit compatibility.
> > > C) We don't have any capacity for users to change the way svg is
> > > saved
> > > to indicate which svg spec we should use.
> > >
> > > So we've got quite the compatibility problem. This isn't an issue
> > > if
> > > one exports pdf files or printing to cut, but is a problem in
> > > this
> > > case where the cutting software is consuming svg files directly.
> > >
> > > Tav and others: For 0.93, do we have a plan to try and help this
> > > situation?
> > >
> > > If we can provide a way to save physical units and set svg 1.1 or
> > > svg
> > > 2.0 outputs, we should be covering all bases.
> > >
> > > Best Regards, Martin Owens
> > >
> > > On 23 August 2017 at 11:10, James Fritzler  wrote:
> > > > Hi Inkscape Devs!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I’ve used Inkscape for about five years now and have built up
> > > > quite
> > > > the
> > > > library of svg files and have been using 91 since its
> > > > release.  My
> > > > main
> > > > creative effort is to build paper toys that I print and cut (in
> > > > bulk) on a
> > > > Silhouette Portrait cutting machine.  (More info on my works at
> > > > http://netroids.net ).  I have a 100s of files and hoped to use
> > > > them as my
> > > > long term "masters” given that SVG is not proprietary and has
> > > > had
> > > > such great
> > > > page layout fidelity for me.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I’d love to update to v92 and future versions but, as is
> > > > commonly
> > > > known, the
> > > > svg save logic has changed to support a new CSS standard of
> > > > 96dpi
> > > > and it is
> > > > affecting my ability to import into my cutting software.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It seems that perhaps the values written by Inkscape in 91 svg
> > > > files are
> > > > encoded using a 90dpi scale from their original design-time
> > > > dimensions. In
> > > > the past I’ve had much success importing SVGs from Inkscape 91
> > > > into
> > > > Silhouette studio for years.  (Granted, I do perform a little
> > > > cleansing in a
> > > > copy of the master svg before I go to Silhouette: I simplify
> > > > the
> > > > layers,
> > > > ungroup, and flatten out clones into their own objects. Perhaps
> > > > it
> > > > is just
> > > > serendipity that the Silhouette Studio imports SVGs at the
> > > > 90dpi.  (I tried
> > > > asking them about dpi but I couldn’t "break through" their
> > > > first-
> > > > tier help
> > > > desk support "fire wall".)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I know there’s an import prompt and process for opening 91
> > > > files in
> > > > 92 and I
> > > > have participated in the launchpad forum and chat with Mc about
> > > > this topic.
> > > > (my user name is jimbox13).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Unfortunate for me, none of the prompts give a workable
> > > > solution.  Here’s
> > > > what happens to my files based on each option.  (I used a diff
> > > > tool
> > > > in to
> > > > investigate some of the changes.)
> > > >
> > > > "Accuracy for sizes and position of paths" (Desired option)
> > > >
> > > > Grid and guides appear to be changed – though I’m not sure to
> > > > what
> > > > extent.
> > > > Rectangles, paths and strokes are sized up by 6.667%
> > > > Inkscape Designer Outcome:  shapes and sizes correct right
> > > > based on
> > > > the
> > > > page. :)  (bug #1712114 occurs.)
> > > > Cutter Software Outcome: File is too large (by 6.667%) for
> > > > cutting
> > > > area.  :(
> > > >
> > > > "Digital Art"
> > > >
> > > > Grid and guides changed to some degree.
> > > > Rectangles and paths not changed.
> > > > Inkscape Designer Outcome:  shapes and sizes are too small for
> > > > the
> > > > page :(
> > > > Cutter Software Outcome: shapes and sizes are correct :)
> > > >
> > > > "Accuracy for masks and clips"
> > > >
> > > > Grid and guides changed to some degree.
> > > > Rectangles, paths and strokes are changed to some degree, not
> > > > the
> > > > same as
> > > > above.
> > > > Inkscape Designer Outcome:  shapes and sizes correct right
> > > > based on
> > > > the
> > > > page. :)  (bug #1712114 does not occur.)
> > > > Cutter Software Outcome: File is significantly too small for
> > > > cutting area.
> > > > :(
> > > >
> > > > None of these options produce a svg that maintains its correct
> > > > physical
> > > > dimensions across both software packages.  I tried
> > > > experimenting by
> > > > customizing the "units.xml" file in 92 without success.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Here is my original v91 file zipped.  (I added a background
> > > > rectangle that
> > > > is the size of the page to help troubleshooting.)
> > > >
> > > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/q6o17j5an2piiw3/acutra_TOCUTv91wBG.zi
> > > > p?dl
> > > > =0
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Is there anything that can be done?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jim
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > ----
> > > > -------------
> > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Inkscape-devel mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
> > > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ----
> > > -----------
> > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Inkscape-devel mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
> > >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------------
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > _______________________________________________
> > Inkscape-devel mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
> >
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Re: SVG in 92 and Phyisical Scale

Martin Owens-2
On 24 August 2017 at 14:20, Jabier Arraiza <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Martin!
> The extension is on Extensions->Document->DPI 96 to 90

Thanks Jabier,

Is there any way to get this into the save dialogue instead? "Save as:
SVG 1.1 90 dpi"

I think the user interface design for an extension of this kind is
going to be important.

It would also be good if the option we clicked on in the convert
dialog was saved into this format, so we could automatically apply it
when opening it.

Best Regards, Martin Owens

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Re: SVG in 92 and Phyisical Scale

Jabier Arraiza
Hi Martin.
There is two extensions "DPI 96 to 90" and "DPI 90 to 96" and both dont
have dialogs. is a menu option only. Anyway I try to fix the strings
for 0.92.3 and 0.93

Cheers, Jabier.



On Thu, 2017-08-24 at 16:33 -0400, Martin Owens wrote:

> On 24 August 2017 at 14:20, Jabier Arraiza <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Hi Martin!
> > The extension is on Extensions->Document->DPI 96 to 90
>
> Thanks Jabier,
>
> Is there any way to get this into the save dialogue instead? "Save
> as:
> SVG 1.1 90 dpi"
>
> I think the user interface design for an extension of this kind is
> going to be important.
>
> It would also be good if the option we clicked on in the convert
> dialog was saved into this format, so we could automatically apply it
> when opening it.
>
> Best Regards, Martin Owens
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Re: SVG in 92 and Phyisical Scale

Jabier Arraiza
In reply to this post by Martin Owens-2
And the conversion is not perfect. :( but is useful for a lot of
situations.

Cheers, Jabier.


On Thu, 2017-08-24 at 16:33 -0400, Martin Owens wrote:

> On 24 August 2017 at 14:20, Jabier Arraiza <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Hi Martin!
> > The extension is on Extensions->Document->DPI 96 to 90
>
> Thanks Jabier,
>
> Is there any way to get this into the save dialogue instead? "Save
> as:
> SVG 1.1 90 dpi"
>
> I think the user interface design for an extension of this kind is
> going to be important.
>
> It would also be good if the option we clicked on in the convert
> dialog was saved into this format, so we could automatically apply it
> when opening it.
>
> Best Regards, Martin Owens
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: SVG in 92 and Phyisical Scale

Marc Jeanmougin
In reply to this post by Martin Owens-2
Just a few important precisions:

-> 96dpi is NOT a svg2-only feature, but very well compatible with
svg1.1 (as well as any other conversion rate, actually, since svg1.1
leaves the conversion ratio up to the user agent). That 96 rate is
already used by almost all svg renderers (the browser ones, at least)

-> iirc, what the "conversion" the extension did is exactly the
automatic update done on opening the files.

-> If the file is sized in a physical unit (in doc properties-> page
size is in mm/in) AND the file has a viewbox, there should be no
ambiguity on the size of anything. Without knowing what are the
"silhouette studio" bugs about reading svg stuff sizes, it may be
difficult to help : both "physical output" conversions produce a valid
svg file where the orange area occupies a 11"x8.5" space being the
entire page, as it should. From what you describe, I think your software
does not honor the viewBox attribute and just assumes it to be "0 0 90w
90h" or something like that.

Either they will have to fix it, or you just use the "digital art"
non-conversion and draw smaller stuff in inkscape to account for it.
Editing units.xml might help you with that (to seamlessly work without
having that 6.667% ratio to think about), but it's just a workaround.

--
Mc

PS: If you want to understand more in depth, I wrote a few posts about
units, the two relevant parts are
https://www.patreon.com/posts/units-part-iii-13741251 and
https://www.patreon.com/posts/units-part-iv-13993147

On 08/24/2017 03:09 PM, Martin Owens wrote:

> Hi James,
>
> It seems like the main issue is thrice fold:
>
> A) opening SVG 1.1 file means we have to convert it to SVG 2.0 dpi,
> even though the spec isn't released, we've cut off the published spec
> support too early.
> B) We can't save physical units into the svg files themselves,
> mitigating issues of external unit compatibility.
> C) We don't have any capacity for users to change the way svg is saved
> to indicate which svg spec we should use.
>
> So we've got quite the compatibility problem. This isn't an issue if
> one exports pdf files or printing to cut, but is a problem in this
> case where the cutting software is consuming svg files directly.
>
> Tav and others: For 0.93, do we have a plan to try and help this situation?
>
> If we can provide a way to save physical units and set svg 1.1 or svg
> 2.0 outputs, we should be covering all bases.
>
> Best Regards, Martin Owens
>
> On 23 August 2017 at 11:10, James Fritzler <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi Inkscape Devs!
>>
>>
>> I’ve used Inkscape for about five years now and have built up quite the
>> library of svg files and have been using 91 since its release.  My main
>> creative effort is to build paper toys that I print and cut (in bulk) on a
>> Silhouette Portrait cutting machine.  (More info on my works at
>> http://netroids.net ).  I have a 100s of files and hoped to use them as my
>> long term "masters” given that SVG is not proprietary and has had such great
>> page layout fidelity for me.
>>
>>
>> I’d love to update to v92 and future versions but, as is commonly known, the
>> svg save logic has changed to support a new CSS standard of 96dpi and it is
>> affecting my ability to import into my cutting software.
>>
>>
>> It seems that perhaps the values written by Inkscape in 91 svg files are
>> encoded using a 90dpi scale from their original design-time dimensions. In
>> the past I’ve had much success importing SVGs from Inkscape 91 into
>> Silhouette studio for years.  (Granted, I do perform a little cleansing in a
>> copy of the master svg before I go to Silhouette: I simplify the layers,
>> ungroup, and flatten out clones into their own objects. Perhaps it is just
>> serendipity that the Silhouette Studio imports SVGs at the 90dpi.  (I tried
>> asking them about dpi but I couldn’t "break through" their first-tier help
>> desk support "fire wall".)
>>
>>
>> I know there’s an import prompt and process for opening 91 files in 92 and I
>> have participated in the launchpad forum and chat with Mc about this topic.
>> (my user name is jimbox13).
>>
>>
>> Unfortunate for me, none of the prompts give a workable solution.  Here’s
>> what happens to my files based on each option.  (I used a diff tool in to
>> investigate some of the changes.)
>>
>> "Accuracy for sizes and position of paths" (Desired option)
>>
>> Grid and guides appear to be changed – though I’m not sure to what extent.
>> Rectangles, paths and strokes are sized up by 6.667%
>> Inkscape Designer Outcome:  shapes and sizes correct right based on the
>> page. :)  (bug #1712114 occurs.)
>> Cutter Software Outcome: File is too large (by 6.667%) for cutting area.  :(
>>
>> "Digital Art"
>>
>> Grid and guides changed to some degree.
>> Rectangles and paths not changed.
>> Inkscape Designer Outcome:  shapes and sizes are too small for the page :(
>> Cutter Software Outcome: shapes and sizes are correct :)
>>
>> "Accuracy for masks and clips"
>>
>> Grid and guides changed to some degree.
>> Rectangles, paths and strokes are changed to some degree, not the same as
>> above.
>> Inkscape Designer Outcome:  shapes and sizes correct right based on the
>> page. :)  (bug #1712114 does not occur.)
>> Cutter Software Outcome: File is significantly too small for cutting area.
>> :(
>>
>> None of these options produce a svg that maintains its correct physical
>> dimensions across both software packages.  I tried experimenting by
>> customizing the "units.xml" file in 92 without success.
>>
>>
>> Here is my original v91 file zipped.  (I added a background rectangle that
>> is the size of the page to help troubleshooting.)
>>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/q6o17j5an2piiw3/acutra_TOCUTv91wBG.zip?dl=0
>>
>>
>> Is there anything that can be done?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Inkscape-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>>
>
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>

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Re: SVG in 92 and Phyisical Scale

Marc Jeanmougin
> both "physical output" conversions produce a valid
> svg file where the orange area occupies a 11"x8.5" space being the
> entire page

Oops, sorry, I was too fast on this one, actually the least recommended
method ("accuracy of the physical unit size") does not appear to set a
viewBox at all¹, so the size of stuff will depend on the UA

--
Mc

¹:wtf, why → I will investigate on that


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Re: SVG in 92 and Phyisical Scale

James Fritzler

Thanks everyone for your help.  I have just verified two ways to get my v91 files to be workable in v92 and also in the 3rd party silhouette studio cutting software!!

*Method 1 - Suggested by Karina

Open the v91 file in v92 and choose the first "physical" option (the one that says "choose if unsure" - mentions masks, etc)

> The graphic scale is preserved.  When ready for the cutting software use File Save As "Plain SVG".  The file opens perfect in silhouette studio.

*Method 2 - Suggested by Jabier

Open the v91 file in v92 and choose "digital art" file option.  Next use the Extensions Document DPI 96 to 90.  Save.

> SVG is correctly scaled in both softwares!

I think I will use Method 1 (though I don't understand the underlying changes.) because I DO end up saving a copy (not master) for the cutter machine anyway.

Thanks all!   :D

If you developers want to add a "SVG 1.1" save as option for SVG and/or a DPI save option for SVG that would be great but my issue is solved as of the time being.  I guess as long as "plain svg" keeps being plain. ;)





From: Marc Jeanmougin <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2017 4:46 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] SVG in 92 and Phyisical Scale
 
> both "physical output" conversions produce a valid
> svg file where the orange area occupies a 11"x8.5" space being the
> entire page

Oops, sorry, I was too fast on this one, actually the least recommended
method ("accuracy of the physical unit size") does not appear to set a
viewBox at all¹, so the size of stuff will depend on the UA

--
Mc

¹:wtf, why → I will investigate on that


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Re: Fwd: SVG in 92 and Phyisical Scale

Lex Neva
In reply to this post by James Fritzler

Hi James,

I can't solve your direct problem, but I can offer an alternative, inkscape-silhouette:

https://github.com/fablabnbg/inkscape-silhouette

It's an inkscape extension that can directly control a silhouette cutter without the need to use Silhouette's proprietary software.  Unless I'm mistaken as to your intent, I think this will allow you to not only master in SVG, but in fact work _only_ in SVG.  As a bonus, inkscape-silhouette gives me much more control than the free version of Silhouette Studio.

Wow, your paper toys are amazing!  I've been doing stuff in a similar (though far less polished) vein using my Portrait to cut polygons that my children can fit together into polyhedra.  Check out this PR and my fork for ideas:

https://github.com/fablabnbg/inkscape-silhouette/pull/45

Hope that helps,
Lex

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "James Fritzler" <[hidden email]>
Date: Aug 23, 2017 10:11
Subject: [Inkscape-devel] SVG in 92 and Phyisical Scale
To: "Inkscape-Devel" <[hidden email]>
Cc:

Hi Inkscape Devs!


I’ve used Inkscape for about five years now and have built up quite the library of svg files and have been using 91 since its release.  My main creative effort is to build paper toys that I print and cut (in bulk) on a Silhouette Portrait cutting machine.  (More info on my works at http://netroids.net ).  I have a 100s of files and hoped to use them as my long term "masters” given that SVG is not proprietary and has had such great page layout fidelity for me.


I’d love to update to v92 and future versions but, as is commonly known, the svg save logic has changed to support a new CSS standard of 96dpi and it is affecting my ability to import into my cutting software.


It seems that perhaps the values written by Inkscape in 91 svg files are encoded using a 90dpi scale from their original design-time dimensions. In the past I’ve had much success importing SVGs from Inkscape 91 into Silhouette studio for years.  (Granted, I do perform a little cleansing in a copy of the master svg before I go to Silhouette: I simplify the layers, ungroup, and flatten out clones into their own objects. Perhaps it is just serendipity that the Silhouette Studio imports SVGs at the 90dpi.  (I tried asking them about dpi but I couldn’t "break through" their first-tier help desk support "fire wall".)


I know there’s an import prompt and process for opening 91 files in 92 and I have participated in the launchpad forum and chat with Mc about this topic.  (my user name is jimbox13).


Unfortunate for me, none of the prompts give a workable solution.  Here’s what happens to my files based on each option.  (I used a diff tool in to investigate some of the changes.) 

  • "Accuracy for sizes and position of paths" (Desired option)
    • Grid and guides appear to be changed – though I’m not sure to what extent.
    • Rectangles, paths and strokes are sized up by 6.667%
    • Inkscape Designer Outcome:  shapes and sizes correct right based on the page. :)  (bug #1712114 occurs.)
    • Cutter Software Outcome: File is too large (by 6.667%) for cutting area.  :(
  • "Digital Art"
    • Grid and guides changed to some degree.
    • Rectangles and paths not changed.
    • Inkscape Designer Outcome:  shapes and sizes are too small for the page :(
    • Cutter Software Outcome: shapes and sizes are correct :)
  • "Accuracy for masks and clips"
    • Grid and guides changed to some degree.
    • Rectangles, paths and strokes are changed to some degree, not the same as above.
    • Inkscape Designer Outcome:  shapes and sizes correct right based on the page. :)  (bug #1712114 does not occur.)
    • Cutter Software Outcome: File is significantly too small for cutting area.  :(

None of these options produce a svg that maintains its correct physical dimensions across both software packages.  I tried experimenting by customizing the "units.xml" file in 92 without success.


Here is my original v91 file zipped.  (I added a background rectangle that is the size of the page to help troubleshooting.)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q6o17j5an2piiw3/acutra_TOCUTv91wBG.zip?dl=0


Is there anything that can be done?

Thanks

 

Jim


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