Visitor analytics

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
6 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Visitor analytics

mihaela.jurkovic

Hi all!

During preparations for forum migration (inkscapeforum.com) a topic of tracking website user statistics came up as worthy of deeper discussion.

It seems that a lot of Inkscapers are against using analytics, or they prefer more open and transparent ways of getting information about our visitors.

It would be useful if we could come up with a very clear set of guidelines that would apply throughout the Inkscape project regarding this topic. 

Some suggestion topics for discussion:

  • Which services should be avoided (Google Analytics, server side logs, ...)
  • What kind of tracking (if any) is allowed to be implemented?
  • If it's implemented how should the users be informed (up front before registering, as part of official policy or as a separate notification)?
  • Should it all be 100% opt-in for each person individually? With fine-grained control over which data is free to be collected?

Mihaela aka prkos



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Visitor analytics

Shlomi Fish
Hi!

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 09:23:12 +0100
Mihaela <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi all!
>
> During preparations for forum migration (inkscapeforum.com) a topic of
> tracking website user statistics came up as worthy of deeper discussion.
>
> It seems that a lot of Inkscapers are against using analytics, or they prefer
> more open and transparent ways of getting information about our visitors.
>
> It would be useful if we could come up with a very clear set of guidelines
> that would apply throughout the Inkscape project regarding this topic. 
>
> Some suggestion topics for discussion:
> • Which services should be avoided (Google Analytics, server side logs, ...)

I'd rather use one of
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=open+source+alternatives+google+analytics&ia=web
instead of GAnalytics. I dont see a problem with analysing server-side logs.

> • What kind of tracking (if any) is allowed to be implemented?
> • If it's implemented how should the users be informed (up front before
> registering, as part of official policy or as a separate notification)?

possibly in the ToS. See http://www.shlomifish.org/meta/privacy-policy/ .

> • Should it all be 100% opt-in for each person individually? With
> fine-grained control over which data is free to be collected?
>

i think opt-in would be overreacting.

> Mihaela aka prkos
>
>
>



--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish       http://www.shlomifish.org/
https://is.gd/MQHVF3 - The Atom Text Editor edits a 2,000,001B file

Xena the warrior princess can meet King David for breakfast and Julius Caesar
for lunch. Without time travel.
    — http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/Xena/

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Visitor analytics

Robert Sterbal
I think we are on plenty of platforms with intrusive analytics.

I think we should just publish the analytics that we are willing to
share with everyone.

I'm looking forward to the discussion of this issue.

Thanks,

Robert Sterbal
[hidden email]
412-977-3526 call/text

On 2/24/2018 6:26 AM, Shlomi Fish wrote:

> Hi!
>
> On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 09:23:12 +0100
> Mihaela <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi all!
>>
>> During preparations for forum migration (inkscapeforum.com) a topic of
>> tracking website user statistics came up as worthy of deeper discussion.
>>
>> It seems that a lot of Inkscapers are against using analytics, or they prefer
>> more open and transparent ways of getting information about our visitors.
>>
>> It would be useful if we could come up with a very clear set of guidelines
>> that would apply throughout the Inkscape project regarding this topic.
>>
>> Some suggestion topics for discussion:
>> • Which services should be avoided (Google Analytics, server side logs, ...)
> I'd rather use one of
> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=open+source+alternatives+google+analytics&ia=web
> instead of GAnalytics. I dont see a problem with analysing server-side logs.
>
>> • What kind of tracking (if any) is allowed to be implemented?
>> • If it's implemented how should the users be informed (up front before
>> registering, as part of official policy or as a separate notification)?
> possibly in the ToS. See http://www.shlomifish.org/meta/privacy-policy/ .
>
>> • Should it all be 100% opt-in for each person individually? With
>> fine-grained control over which data is free to be collected?
>>
> i think opt-in would be overreacting.
>
>> Mihaela aka prkos
>>
>>
>>
>
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Visitor analytics

Inkscape - Dev mailing list

If we want Google Analytics level reporting (without sharing information with Google) then Piwik/Matomo is the best solution I'm aware of. It is still going to put cookies on the machines of our site visitors, which they may not appreciate, which does have some notice requirements in the EU as well. I wonder if we couldn't derive almost everything we need from an archaic log analyzer like AWStats that works without cookies. I think there is enough there to help us make better decisions about content and to understand our users better without some of the privacy concerns. Just my $0.02.

Ryan

On 02/24/2018 04:43 AM, Robert Sterbal wrote:
I think we are on plenty of platforms with intrusive analytics.

I think we should just publish the analytics that we are willing to share with everyone.

I'm looking forward to the discussion of this issue.

Thanks,

Robert Sterbal
[hidden email]
412-977-3526 call/text

On 2/24/2018 6:26 AM, Shlomi Fish wrote:
Hi!

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 09:23:12 +0100
Mihaela [hidden email] wrote:

Hi all!

During preparations for forum migration (inkscapeforum.com) a topic of
tracking website user statistics came up as worthy of deeper discussion.

It seems that a lot of Inkscapers are against using analytics, or they prefer
more open and transparent ways of getting information about our visitors.

It would be useful if we could come up with a very clear set of guidelines
that would apply throughout the Inkscape project regarding this topic.

Some suggestion topics for discussion:
• Which services should be avoided (Google Analytics, server side logs, ...)
I'd rather use one of
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=open+source+alternatives+google+analytics&ia=web
instead of GAnalytics. I dont see a problem with analysing server-side logs.

• What kind of tracking (if any) is allowed to be implemented?
• If it's implemented how should the users be informed (up front before
registering, as part of official policy or as a separate notification)?
possibly in the ToS. See http://www.shlomifish.org/meta/privacy-policy/ .

• Should it all be 100% opt-in for each person individually? With
fine-grained control over which data is free to be collected?

i think opt-in would be overreacting.

Mihaela aka prkos







------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

signature.asc (849 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Visitor analytics

Brynn
I think there has been some misunderstanding with the mention of the word
"analytics".  Server side analytics are very common, and I think probably every
website on a public webhost uses them, like it or not, no opt out is possible.
Not that I know of anyway.  I would guess  Martin has something for the website,
although I don't really know for sure.

What we are NOT talking about is tracking IP addresses and snooping on activity.
Analytics such as Piwik (now called Matomo, for some bizarre reason) does
perform this kind of tracking.  But Piwik is open source, and it provides an
opt-out, as well as respecting the browser's Do Not Track setting.  Also,
currently features are being added to respect the new European privacy laws.  I
use it on my site (opt-out is at the bottom):
http://forum.inkscapecommunity.com/index.php?page=29.

The only reason I use it on my site is because it's open source and provides
real-time visitor tracking.  I use it rarely if I need to follow a potential
spammer (who got through the net) or a member or visitor who is causing trouble.
Once in a while it's helpful when a newbie can't figure out what to do.  I can
see what they're trying to do, and help them.

I also like it because it seems to only track human visitors, while server side
analytics shows everything that hits.  So it gives a little more realistic
pictures of visitor stats.  But honestly, I rarely use it to follow a particular
visitor.  Mostly I just watch the graph showing daily visitors.

Now, even though Piwik (and others) provide this kind of tracking, doesn't mean
it's users are snooping on their sites' members.  In my opinion, collecting
information about website visitors only becomes wrong when the person using it
(forum admin, site owner, manager, webmaster, etc.) has bad intentions.

(I think google analytics was made with bad intentions in mind, and would avoid
it at all costs.  I don't know for a fact, but I think it reports back to google
whatever it collects.)

Anyway, since we are the ones who would....let's say theoretically, be using it,
does it make sense to be worried about what we might do with the information
that's collected?  We don't trust ourselves?  Certainly if something like this
were to be installed, only admins would have access to it.   I would not give
moderators access, and certainly not members!

However, my opinion is that server side analytics should be sufficient.  For
that, I like Webalyzer.  I don't know if it costs to install it....I suppose it
probably does.  But there could be open source server side analytics.

But Bryce is setting up the server, as far as I understand.  So I would think it
would be up to him and the board.

All best,
brynn

-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Gorley via Inkscape-devel
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2018 9:16 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Visitor analytics



If we want Google Analytics level reporting (without sharing information with
Google) then Piwik/Matomo is the best solution I'm aware of. It is still going
to put cookies on the machines of our site visitors, which they may not
appreciate, which does have some notice requirements in the EU as well. I wonder
if we couldn't derive almost everything we need from an archaic log analyzer
like AWStats that works without cookies. I think there is enough there to help
us make better decisions about content and to understand our users better
without some of the privacy concerns. Just my $0.02.


Ryan

On 02/24/2018 04:43 AM, Robert Sterbal wrote:
I think we are on plenty of platforms with intrusive analytics.

I think we should just publish the analytics that we are willing to share with
everyone.

I'm looking forward to the discussion of this issue.

Thanks,

Robert Sterbal
[hidden email]
412-977-3526 call/text

On 2/24/2018 6:26 AM, Shlomi Fish wrote:
Hi!

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 09:23:12 +0100
Mihaela mailto:[hidden email] wrote:

Hi all!

During preparations for forum migration (inkscapeforum.com) a topic of
tracking website user statistics came up as worthy of deeper discussion.

It seems that a lot of Inkscapers are against using analytics, or they prefer
more open and transparent ways of getting information about our visitors.

It would be useful if we could come up with a very clear set of guidelines
that would apply throughout the Inkscape project regarding this topic.

Some suggestion topics for discussion:
• Which services should be avoided (Google Analytics, server side logs, ...)
I'd rather use one of
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=open+source+alternatives+google+analytics&ia=web
instead of GAnalytics. I dont see a problem with analysing server-side logs.

• What kind of tracking (if any) is allowed to be implemented?
• If it's implemented how should the users be informed (up front before
registering, as part of official policy or as a separate notification)?
possibly in the ToS. See http://www.shlomifish.org/meta/privacy-policy/ .

• Should it all be 100% opt-in for each person individually? With
fine-grained control over which data is free to be collected?

i think opt-in would be overreacting.

Mihaela aka prkos







------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel







------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot





_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Visitor analytics

Bryce Harrington-3
On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 03:38:04PM -0700, brynn wrote:
> However, my opinion is that server side analytics should be sufficient.  For
> that, I like Webalyzer.  I don't know if it costs to install it....I suppose
> it probably does.  But there could be open source server side analytics.
>
> But Bryce is setting up the server, as far as I understand.  So I would
> think it would be up to him and the board.

Serverside analytics should be fine, I've used webalyzer and one or two
others.  They're straightforward and free.

I haven't heard of privacy concerns regarding making webalizer's
interface public, but I suppose it could be placed in a password
protected space, I doubt the information would be of legitimate interest
to people outside the project.

The access logs have IP addresses, so I suppose there could be some
concerns about those, but those issues exist regardless of whether the
logs are analyzed or not.  IIRC webalyzer caches its processed results,
so the logs can be rotated and discarded after some period, and I would
think that should address most of the concerns.

Anyway, if anyone wishes to do the legwork of setting up a FOSS analyser
like Webalyzer with Ansible, I'd have no qualms about it myself.

Bryce


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Inkscape-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel