new forum, what happened? make a plan?

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new forum, what happened? make a plan?

Brynn
Hi Friends,
        As I mentioned a couple of months ago, I've lost my patience over this
whole "new forum" issue.

        I've been given the impression that we're (as a community) going back
into limbo with the forum situation, and holding our breath that there are no
more black eyes resulting from the lack of (effective) management of
InkscapeForum.com.

        I don't understand why.  Why risk yet another black eye?  Do most people
just not realize everything that's happened due to the lack of effective
management, over the years?  Or everything that could still happen?  Shall I
elaborate?  Or maybe most people just don't care, since they don't use forums
anyway?

        What yet needs to be done to make the new forum live and close the old
one?  To me, it has all the features it needs.  As far as I know, the only thing
that's still needed is load testing (lots of users at the same time).

        If we can start it within 6 months, I'd like to propose that we make a
concrete plan (as much as possible, given that this community doesn't function
well with deadlines).  Of course I'd be glad to help create such a plan.

        If it requires more than 6 months more work, I would propose installing
a php forum (SMF or phpBB) and start it right away.  Then some day, if the
Django-integrated forum is ever ready, we can switch over to it.

        Thanks for any clarity on this issue.

All best,
brynn




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C R
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Re: new forum, what happened? make a plan?

C R
Correct if wrong, but I got the impression that it's still being worked on. 
I'm liaising with Doctormo, and Jabier to try and integrate the visual stylings of the new forum with our current website. 
If it's true that we're going back into a state of limbo do tell me so I don't do extra work for nothing! :)

Thanks.
-C

On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 11:32 PM brynn <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Friends,
        As I mentioned a couple of months ago, I've lost my patience over this
whole "new forum" issue.

        I've been given the impression that we're (as a community) going back
into limbo with the forum situation, and holding our breath that there are no
more black eyes resulting from the lack of (effective) management of
InkscapeForum.com.

        I don't understand why.  Why risk yet another black eye?  Do most people
just not realize everything that's happened due to the lack of effective
management, over the years?  Or everything that could still happen?  Shall I
elaborate?  Or maybe most people just don't care, since they don't use forums
anyway?

        What yet needs to be done to make the new forum live and close the old
one?  To me, it has all the features it needs.  As far as I know, the only thing
that's still needed is load testing (lots of users at the same time).

        If we can start it within 6 months, I'd like to propose that we make a
concrete plan (as much as possible, given that this community doesn't function
well with deadlines).  Of course I'd be glad to help create such a plan.

        If it requires more than 6 months more work, I would propose installing
a php forum (SMF or phpBB) and start it right away.  Then some day, if the
Django-integrated forum is ever ready, we can switch over to it.

        Thanks for any clarity on this issue.

All best,
brynn




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[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user


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Re: new forum, what happened? make a plan?

Inkscape - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Brynn
Brynn,
      Go ahead and do what needs to be done.  You will never make all of the people happy.
Best Regards,
Bill


Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Friday, January 25, 2019 5:31 PM, brynn <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Friends,
> As I mentioned a couple of months ago, I've lost my patience over this
> whole "new forum" issue.
>
> I've been given the impression that we're (as a community) going back
> into limbo with the forum situation, and holding our breath that there are no
> more black eyes resulting from the lack of (effective) management of
> InkscapeForum.com.
>
> I don't understand why. Why risk yet another black eye? Do most people
> just not realize everything that's happened due to the lack of effective
> management, over the years? Or everything that could still happen? Shall I
> elaborate? Or maybe most people just don't care, since they don't use forums
> anyway?
>
> What yet needs to be done to make the new forum live and close the old
> one? To me, it has all the features it needs. As far as I know, the only thing
> that's still needed is load testing (lots of users at the same time).
>
> If we can start it within 6 months, I'd like to propose that we make a
> concrete plan (as much as possible, given that this community doesn't function
> well with deadlines). Of course I'd be glad to help create such a plan.
>
> If it requires more than 6 months more work, I would propose installing
> a php forum (SMF or phpBB) and start it right away. Then some day, if the
> Django-integrated forum is ever ready, we can switch over to it.
>
> Thanks for any clarity on this issue.
>
> All best,
> brynn
>
> Inkscape-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user




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Re: new forum, what happened? make a plan?

doctormo
In reply to this post by C R
Hi Brynn,

Sorry if it seems like the website forum is in limbo, it's not. It's
very functional I think on the core and has a great number of the
functionalities asked for.

The questions now are so fold:

 1. Do we have someone like yourself who is willing and able to doing
the management work to make the new forum work? We need people who are
committed being in the key seats to really get things moving.

 2. The inkscape-web team is at your disposal. (or at the disposal of
the management of the forum). It will from time to time appear like I
get distracted easily like a dog chasing squirrels. And that appearance
is entirely true. Greater use of the forum, and direction by someone in
charge would greatly help keeping things focused and prioritising which
of the many small paper-cuts is the most important.

Best Regards, Martin Owens

On Fri, 2019-01-25 at 23:41 +0000, C R wrote:
> Correct if wrong, but I got the impression that it's still being
> worked on.
> I'm liaising with Doctormo, and Jabier to try and integrate the
> visual stylings of the new forum with our current website.
> If it's true that we're going back into a state of limbo do tell me
> so I don't do extra work for nothing! :)



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Re: new forum, what happened? make a plan?

Brynn
Oh yes, I realize the new forum is still being worked on.  I didn't mean to
imply it wasn't.  I just had the impression it had slowed down, and there was no
longer a priority to get it open.

I was told the plan was to let the old forum keep running as long as it will,
which to me, is the same limbo we've been in, for so long now.  (And in my
opinion, not a good idea, for what I thought would be obvious reasons.)

I'm definitely commited, but since I don't have the development skills, I don't
understand what work still needs to be done.  So I think it would be helpful to
make a plan -- at least to have an outline of the next steps, so that everyone
is on the same page.

If the folks working on the development could say what still needs to be done, I
could write up tasks in a gitlab Issue (I'm not sure if there already is an
issue or not, but I'll look).

And there's another potential problem that needs to be addressed as well
(probably a few actually).  It seems most of the membership of InkscapeForum is
not interested in the new forum.  When I posted the message inviting them to
test it, there was little to no response.  I didn't specifically address the
fact that the old forum would be closed, and they didn't seem to pick up on the
many hints.  It sounds like they are expecting the old forum to stay open.  We
haven't broached that subject of closing it yet, publicly (except for this
message - I'm not sure if any forum members subscribe to this list).

Plus, they somehow think I instigated the new forum, which renewed the same wild
assumptions they made when I opened Inkscape Community (that I wanted to take
over, or divide the forum, or steal members, or whatever nonsense they
imagined).

So when the time comes to open the new forum and close the old one, that word
will need to come probably from the board.  In any case, I should probably no
longer be "the messenger" regarding the new forum.

If you need forum management, maybe we need to work up the forum rules or
guidelines (or whatever we call them)?  And then we could go about setting up
admins and moderators.  Is that the kind of management you mean?

I'm not sure how we could use the forum any further, at this point.  It seems to
have been tested in every way I can think of, except for heavy traffic.  I don't
think it should be opened until we're ready to close the old one, for several
reasons.

But if you could share your list of paper cuts which still need fixing, I could
help in prioritizing them.  (Maren might help too??)

If we could find a way for the board to explain that the old forum is going to
be closed, the members might be more willing to test the new forum?  Maybe
they'd be more willing to be on the new staff too??  Here's the forum thread
where I invited members to test the new forum:
http://www.inkscapeforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=34311  So you can see how
they're resistant.  I'm not sure how the best way to word it would be, but we
could discuss it in real time, at some point, probably better than in email.

All best,
brynn



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 6:15 PM
To: Inkscape User Community
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] new forum, what happened? make a plan?

Hi Brynn,

Sorry if it seems like the website forum is in limbo, it's not. It's
very functional I think on the core and has a great number of the
functionalities asked for.

The questions now are so fold:

1. Do we have someone like yourself who is willing and able to doing
the management work to make the new forum work? We need people who are
committed being in the key seats to really get things moving.

2. The inkscape-web team is at your disposal. (or at the disposal of
the management of the forum). It will from time to time appear like I
get distracted easily like a dog chasing squirrels. And that appearance
is entirely true. Greater use of the forum, and direction by someone in
charge would greatly help keeping things focused and prioritising which
of the many small paper-cuts is the most important.

Best Regards, Martin Owens

On Fri, 2019-01-25 at 23:41 +0000, C R wrote:
> Correct if wrong, but I got the impression that it's still being
> worked on.
> I'm liaising with Doctormo, and Jabier to try and integrate the
> visual stylings of the new forum with our current website.
> If it's true that we're going back into a state of limbo do tell me
> so I don't do extra work for nothing! :)



_______________________________________________
Inkscape-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user 



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Re: new forum, what happened? make a plan?

doctormo
Hi Brynn,

On the subject of development: It's not still in development, slowed or
stopped. It's waiting for management. Think of me as a resource to be
used to help get this project off the ground, not as a manager who is
driving it.

On membership: I wouldn't focus too much on the old forum, focus on
building a new forum with new members. We haven't done any marketing
for the new forum, haven't invited people from our other outreach
areas.

I don't know who told you we should keep the forum closed until the old
forum is dead. But that's a terrible strategy. The new forum is a solid
base, but what it needs is a fresh population, not resentful users from
previous forums.

But this is just my thoughts on membership. It's really up to the
management.

Best Regards, Martin Owens

On Sat, 2019-01-26 at 00:02 -0700, brynn wrote:

> Oh yes, I realize the new forum is still being worked on.  I didn't
> mean to
> imply it wasn't.  I just had the impression it had slowed down, and
> there was no
> longer a priority to get it open.
>
> I was told the plan was to let the old forum keep running as long as
> it will,
> which to me, is the same limbo we've been in, for so long now.  (And
> in my
> opinion, not a good idea, for what I thought would be obvious
> reasons.)
>
> I'm definitely commited, but since I don't have the development
> skills, I don't
> understand what work still needs to be done.  So I think it would be
> helpful to
> make a plan -- at least to have an outline of the next steps, so that
> everyone
> is on the same page.
>
> If the folks working on the development could say what still needs to
> be done, I
> could write up tasks in a gitlab Issue (I'm not sure if there already
> is an
> issue or not, but I'll look).
>
> And there's another potential problem that needs to be addressed as
> well
> (probably a few actually).  It seems most of the membership of
> InkscapeForum is
> not interested in the new forum.  When I posted the message inviting
> them to
> test it, there was little to no response.  I didn't specifically
> address the
> fact that the old forum would be closed, and they didn't seem to pick
> up on the
> many hints.  It sounds like they are expecting the old forum to stay
> open.  We
> haven't broached that subject of closing it yet, publicly (except for
> this
> message - I'm not sure if any forum members subscribe to this list).
>
> Plus, they somehow think I instigated the new forum, which renewed
> the same wild
> assumptions they made when I opened Inkscape Community (that I wanted
> to take
> over, or divide the forum, or steal members, or whatever nonsense
> they
> imagined).
>
> So when the time comes to open the new forum and close the old one,
> that word
> will need to come probably from the board.  In any case, I should
> probably no
> longer be "the messenger" regarding the new forum.
>
> If you need forum management, maybe we need to work up the forum
> rules or
> guidelines (or whatever we call them)?  And then we could go about
> setting up
> admins and moderators.  Is that the kind of management you mean?
>
> I'm not sure how we could use the forum any further, at this
> point.  It seems to
> have been tested in every way I can think of, except for heavy
> traffic.  I don't
> think it should be opened until we're ready to close the old one, for
> several
> reasons.
>
> But if you could share your list of paper cuts which still need
> fixing, I could
> help in prioritizing them.  (Maren might help too??)
>
> If we could find a way for the board to explain that the old forum is
> going to
> be closed, the members might be more willing to test the new
> forum?  Maybe
> they'd be more willing to be on the new staff too??  Here's the forum
> thread
> where I invited members to test the new forum:
> http://www.inkscapeforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=34311  So you can
> see how
> they're resistant.  I'm not sure how the best way to word it would
> be, but we
> could discuss it in real time, at some point, probably better than in
> email.
>
> All best,
> brynn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 6:15 PM
> To: Inkscape User Community
> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] new forum, what happened? make a plan?
>
> Hi Brynn,
>
> Sorry if it seems like the website forum is in limbo, it's not. It's
> very functional I think on the core and has a great number of the
> functionalities asked for.
>
> The questions now are so fold:
>
> 1. Do we have someone like yourself who is willing and able to doing
> the management work to make the new forum work? We need people who
> are
> committed being in the key seats to really get things moving.
>
> 2. The inkscape-web team is at your disposal. (or at the disposal of
> the management of the forum). It will from time to time appear like I
> get distracted easily like a dog chasing squirrels. And that
> appearance
> is entirely true. Greater use of the forum, and direction by someone
> in
> charge would greatly help keeping things focused and prioritising
> which
> of the many small paper-cuts is the most important.
>
> Best Regards, Martin Owens
>
> On Fri, 2019-01-25 at 23:41 +0000, C R wrote:
> > Correct if wrong, but I got the impression that it's still being
> > worked on.
> > I'm liaising with Doctormo, and Jabier to try and integrate the
> > visual stylings of the new forum with our current website.
> > If it's true that we're going back into a state of limbo do tell me
> > so I don't do extra work for nothing! :)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user 
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user



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C R
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Re: new forum, what happened? make a plan?

C R
This echos my understanding. The new forum is supposed to attract a trickle of new members, so that there is actually incentive to make the migration for those in the old forum.

-C

On Sat, 26 Jan 2019, 16:20 <[hidden email] wrote:
Hi Brynn,

On the subject of development: It's not still in development, slowed or
stopped. It's waiting for management. Think of me as a resource to be
used to help get this project off the ground, not as a manager who is
driving it.

On membership: I wouldn't focus too much on the old forum, focus on
building a new forum with new members. We haven't done any marketing
for the new forum, haven't invited people from our other outreach
areas.

I don't know who told you we should keep the forum closed until the old
forum is dead. But that's a terrible strategy. The new forum is a solid
base, but what it needs is a fresh population, not resentful users from
previous forums.

But this is just my thoughts on membership. It's really up to the
management.

Best Regards, Martin Owens

On Sat, 2019-01-26 at 00:02 -0700, brynn wrote:
> Oh yes, I realize the new forum is still being worked on.  I didn't
> mean to
> imply it wasn't.  I just had the impression it had slowed down, and
> there was no
> longer a priority to get it open.
>
> I was told the plan was to let the old forum keep running as long as
> it will,
> which to me, is the same limbo we've been in, for so long now.  (And
> in my
> opinion, not a good idea, for what I thought would be obvious
> reasons.)
>
> I'm definitely commited, but since I don't have the development
> skills, I don't
> understand what work still needs to be done.  So I think it would be
> helpful to
> make a plan -- at least to have an outline of the next steps, so that
> everyone
> is on the same page.
>
> If the folks working on the development could say what still needs to
> be done, I
> could write up tasks in a gitlab Issue (I'm not sure if there already
> is an
> issue or not, but I'll look).
>
> And there's another potential problem that needs to be addressed as
> well
> (probably a few actually).  It seems most of the membership of
> InkscapeForum is
> not interested in the new forum.  When I posted the message inviting
> them to
> test it, there was little to no response.  I didn't specifically
> address the
> fact that the old forum would be closed, and they didn't seem to pick
> up on the
> many hints.  It sounds like they are expecting the old forum to stay
> open.  We
> haven't broached that subject of closing it yet, publicly (except for
> this
> message - I'm not sure if any forum members subscribe to this list).
>
> Plus, they somehow think I instigated the new forum, which renewed
> the same wild
> assumptions they made when I opened Inkscape Community (that I wanted
> to take
> over, or divide the forum, or steal members, or whatever nonsense
> they
> imagined).
>
> So when the time comes to open the new forum and close the old one,
> that word
> will need to come probably from the board.  In any case, I should
> probably no
> longer be "the messenger" regarding the new forum.
>
> If you need forum management, maybe we need to work up the forum
> rules or
> guidelines (or whatever we call them)?  And then we could go about
> setting up
> admins and moderators.  Is that the kind of management you mean?
>
> I'm not sure how we could use the forum any further, at this
> point.  It seems to
> have been tested in every way I can think of, except for heavy
> traffic.  I don't
> think it should be opened until we're ready to close the old one, for
> several
> reasons.
>
> But if you could share your list of paper cuts which still need
> fixing, I could
> help in prioritizing them.  (Maren might help too??)
>
> If we could find a way for the board to explain that the old forum is
> going to
> be closed, the members might be more willing to test the new
> forum?  Maybe
> they'd be more willing to be on the new staff too??  Here's the forum
> thread
> where I invited members to test the new forum:
> http://www.inkscapeforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=34311  So you can
> see how
> they're resistant.  I'm not sure how the best way to word it would
> be, but we
> could discuss it in real time, at some point, probably better than in
> email.
>
> All best,
> brynn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 6:15 PM
> To: Inkscape User Community
> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] new forum, what happened? make a plan?
>
> Hi Brynn,
>
> Sorry if it seems like the website forum is in limbo, it's not. It's
> very functional I think on the core and has a great number of the
> functionalities asked for.
>
> The questions now are so fold:
>
> 1. Do we have someone like yourself who is willing and able to doing
> the management work to make the new forum work? We need people who
> are
> committed being in the key seats to really get things moving.
>
> 2. The inkscape-web team is at your disposal. (or at the disposal of
> the management of the forum). It will from time to time appear like I
> get distracted easily like a dog chasing squirrels. And that
> appearance
> is entirely true. Greater use of the forum, and direction by someone
> in
> charge would greatly help keeping things focused and prioritising
> which
> of the many small paper-cuts is the most important.
>
> Best Regards, Martin Owens
>
> On Fri, 2019-01-25 at 23:41 +0000, C R wrote:
> > Correct if wrong, but I got the impression that it's still being
> > worked on.
> > I'm liaising with Doctormo, and Jabier to try and integrate the
> > visual stylings of the new forum with our current website.
> > If it's true that we're going back into a state of limbo do tell me
> > so I don't do extra work for nothing! :)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user



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[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user


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Re: new forum, what happened? make a plan?

Brynn
In reply to this post by doctormo
Hi Martin,
        They didn't say it was closed.  They just said it wasn't ready yet, and
that there was more work to be done.  And that InkscapeForum was to be left open
indefinitely.  To me, that's back to limbo.  There was no mention of management.

> On the subject of development: It's not still in development, slowed or
stopped. It's waiting for management. Think of me as a resource to be
used to help get this project off the ground, not as a manager who is
driving it.

        Well, there are still some features, at least some that I requested,
still not there yet.  And I think there are some others too, that you haven't
finished.  Right?  I know you said you had a personal list you were working
from, at one time.  But it still might be nice to have that list public (or did
I just not find it yet?).

        But it will never go anywhere as long as the old forum stays open.
Believe me, I've lived that scenario for the last 5 years!  Certainly not if we
don't do any advertising or outreach about it.  Plus, if the new one is open,
and all the others are still open, I can tell you that I, for one, will not be
visiting 4 forums every day.  (I manage 2 myself - everyone else would have to
visit 3 forums every day.)

        Now, if we're going to have an official opening for the new forum, and
do some outreach and advertising, (and put it in the main menu of the website),
I'll be glad to reorganize and divert traffic from Inkscape Community (and
Inkscape for Cutting Design), as I have always promised.  But that still leaves
InkscapeForum open.  And as long as it's open, those people who answer questions
there will not be helping in the new forum.

        Oooohhhh....!!  I think I just saw the light!  One of the people who
should definitely, most definitely, receive an announcement about the opening of
a new official forum, would be the owners of the other forums.  Possibly more
than one announcement might be needed.  But that *could* work!

        Shall I re-title this (or start a new thread), and move towards forming
the documentation and management for the new forum?  Is anyone else on board?
(We could even invite the moderators of InkscapeForum if they want to be
involved, although most probably won't.)

All best,
brynn

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2019 9:20 AM
To: Inkscape User Community
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] new forum, what happened? make a plan?

Hi Brynn,

On the subject of development: It's not still in development, slowed or
stopped. It's waiting for management. Think of me as a resource to be
used to help get this project off the ground, not as a manager who is
driving it.

On membership: I wouldn't focus too much on the old forum, focus on
building a new forum with new members. We haven't done any marketing
for the new forum, haven't invited people from our other outreach
areas.

I don't know who told you we should keep the forum closed until the old
forum is dead. But that's a terrible strategy. The new forum is a solid
base, but what it needs is a fresh population, not resentful users from
previous forums.

But this is just my thoughts on membership. It's really up to the
management.

Best Regards, Martin Owens

On Sat, 2019-01-26 at 00:02 -0700, brynn wrote:

> Oh yes, I realize the new forum is still being worked on.  I didn't
> mean to
> imply it wasn't.  I just had the impression it had slowed down, and
> there was no
> longer a priority to get it open.
>
> I was told the plan was to let the old forum keep running as long as
> it will,
> which to me, is the same limbo we've been in, for so long now.  (And
> in my
> opinion, not a good idea, for what I thought would be obvious
> reasons.)
>
> I'm definitely commited, but since I don't have the development
> skills, I don't
> understand what work still needs to be done.  So I think it would be
> helpful to
> make a plan -- at least to have an outline of the next steps, so that
> everyone
> is on the same page.
>
> If the folks working on the development could say what still needs to
> be done, I
> could write up tasks in a gitlab Issue (I'm not sure if there already
> is an
> issue or not, but I'll look).
>
> And there's another potential problem that needs to be addressed as
> well
> (probably a few actually).  It seems most of the membership of
> InkscapeForum is
> not interested in the new forum.  When I posted the message inviting
> them to
> test it, there was little to no response.  I didn't specifically
> address the
> fact that the old forum would be closed, and they didn't seem to pick
> up on the
> many hints.  It sounds like they are expecting the old forum to stay
> open.  We
> haven't broached that subject of closing it yet, publicly (except for
> this
> message - I'm not sure if any forum members subscribe to this list).
>
> Plus, they somehow think I instigated the new forum, which renewed
> the same wild
> assumptions they made when I opened Inkscape Community (that I wanted
> to take
> over, or divide the forum, or steal members, or whatever nonsense
> they
> imagined).
>
> So when the time comes to open the new forum and close the old one,
> that word
> will need to come probably from the board.  In any case, I should
> probably no
> longer be "the messenger" regarding the new forum.
>
> If you need forum management, maybe we need to work up the forum
> rules or
> guidelines (or whatever we call them)?  And then we could go about
> setting up
> admins and moderators.  Is that the kind of management you mean?
>
> I'm not sure how we could use the forum any further, at this
> point.  It seems to
> have been tested in every way I can think of, except for heavy
> traffic.  I don't
> think it should be opened until we're ready to close the old one, for
> several
> reasons.
>
> But if you could share your list of paper cuts which still need
> fixing, I could
> help in prioritizing them.  (Maren might help too??)
>
> If we could find a way for the board to explain that the old forum is
> going to
> be closed, the members might be more willing to test the new
> forum?  Maybe
> they'd be more willing to be on the new staff too??  Here's the forum
> thread
> where I invited members to test the new forum:
> http://www.inkscapeforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=34311  So you can
> see how
> they're resistant.  I'm not sure how the best way to word it would
> be, but we
> could discuss it in real time, at some point, probably better than in
> email.
>
> All best,
> brynn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 6:15 PM
> To: Inkscape User Community
> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] new forum, what happened? make a plan?
>
> Hi Brynn,
>
> Sorry if it seems like the website forum is in limbo, it's not. It's
> very functional I think on the core and has a great number of the
> functionalities asked for.
>
> The questions now are so fold:
>
> 1. Do we have someone like yourself who is willing and able to doing
> the management work to make the new forum work? We need people who
> are
> committed being in the key seats to really get things moving.
>
> 2. The inkscape-web team is at your disposal. (or at the disposal of
> the management of the forum). It will from time to time appear like I
> get distracted easily like a dog chasing squirrels. And that
> appearance
> is entirely true. Greater use of the forum, and direction by someone
> in
> charge would greatly help keeping things focused and prioritising
> which
> of the many small paper-cuts is the most important.
>
> Best Regards, Martin Owens
>
> On Fri, 2019-01-25 at 23:41 +0000, C R wrote:
> > Correct if wrong, but I got the impression that it's still being
> > worked on.
> > I'm liaising with Doctormo, and Jabier to try and integrate the
> > visual stylings of the new forum with our current website.
> > If it's true that we're going back into a state of limbo do tell me
> > so I don't do extra work for nothing! :)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
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Re: new forum, what happened? make a plan?

doctormo
On Sun, 2019-01-27 at 15:59 -0700, brynn wrote:
>         They didn't say it was closed.  They just said it wasn't
> ready yet, and that there was more work to be done.  And that
> InkscapeForum was to be left open indefinitely.  To me, that's back
> to limbo.  There was no mention of management.

Ignore them. Whoever they are. We're crossing some wires and your
suggestions below about kicking off some new discussions is the right
direction.

> still not there yet.  And I think there are some others too, that you
> haven't finished.  Right?

Not a perfect actor. But I don't want the forum to be shuttered waiting
for perfect. We have the issues list in GitLab which is the more
authoritative list, but it's always going to be the case that if you
were to remind me of an issue that was hitting users of the forum, I
could prioritise it better.

> Shall I re-title this (or start a new thread), and move
> towards forming
> the documentation and management for the new forum?  Is anyone else
> on board?
> (We could even invite the moderators of InkscapeForum if they want to
> be involved, although most probably won't.)

Maybe we should have a vector's issue, we can talk about promoting the
forum and how to do that correctly.

Best Regards, Martin Owens



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Re: new forum, what happened? make a plan?

Brynn
Ok, I'll make a new issue under Vectors team, as best I can.  And then others
can edit if there's a better way to format it or present it (I still get
confused with the GL editor and all the codes which I don't like having to look
up).  (I'll reference this thread too, for completeness.)

Thanks for clearing up the situation.  I really wasn't understanding the status
quo correctly, apparently.  Maybe no one else really did either, at least not
fully.

All best,
brynn

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2019 10:38 PM
To: Inkscape User Community
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] new forum, what happened? make a plan?

On Sun, 2019-01-27 at 15:59 -0700, brynn wrote:
>         They didn't say it was closed.  They just said it wasn't
> ready yet, and that there was more work to be done.  And that
> InkscapeForum was to be left open indefinitely.  To me, that's back
> to limbo.  There was no mention of management.

Ignore them. Whoever they are. We're crossing some wires and your
suggestions below about kicking off some new discussions is the right
direction.

> still not there yet.  And I think there are some others too, that you
> haven't finished.  Right?

Not a perfect actor. But I don't want the forum to be shuttered waiting
for perfect. We have the issues list in GitLab which is the more
authoritative list, but it's always going to be the case that if you
were to remind me of an issue that was hitting users of the forum, I
could prioritise it better.

> Shall I re-title this (or start a new thread), and move
> towards forming
> the documentation and management for the new forum?  Is anyone else
> on board?
> (We could even invite the moderators of InkscapeForum if they want to
> be involved, although most probably won't.)

Maybe we should have a vector's issue, we can talk about promoting the
forum and how to do that correctly.

Best Regards, Martin Owens



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Re: new forum, what happened? make a plan?

Brynn
Hhmm, I'm composing the new Issue, and I tried using @all.  It's giving me a
warning that I'm adding 45 people to the discussion.  Should I not do that?
Isn't that the whole point for using @all ??

Thanks,
brynn

-----Original Message-----
From: brynn
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 12:38 AM
To: Inkscape User Community
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] new forum, what happened? make a plan?

Ok, I'll make a new issue under Vectors team, as best I can.  And then others
can edit if there's a better way to format it or present it (I still get
confused with the GL editor and all the codes which I don't like having to look
up).  (I'll reference this thread too, for completeness.)

Thanks for clearing up the situation.  I really wasn't understanding the status
quo correctly, apparently.  Maybe no one else really did either, at least not
fully.

All best,
brynn

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2019 10:38 PM
To: Inkscape User Community
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] new forum, what happened? make a plan?

On Sun, 2019-01-27 at 15:59 -0700, brynn wrote:
>         They didn't say it was closed.  They just said it wasn't
> ready yet, and that there was more work to be done.  And that
> InkscapeForum was to be left open indefinitely.  To me, that's back
> to limbo.  There was no mention of management.

Ignore them. Whoever they are. We're crossing some wires and your
suggestions below about kicking off some new discussions is the right
direction.

> still not there yet.  And I think there are some others too, that you
> haven't finished.  Right?

Not a perfect actor. But I don't want the forum to be shuttered waiting
for perfect. We have the issues list in GitLab which is the more
authoritative list, but it's always going to be the case that if you
were to remind me of an issue that was hitting users of the forum, I
could prioritise it better.

> Shall I re-title this (or start a new thread), and move
> towards forming
> the documentation and management for the new forum?  Is anyone else
> on board?
> (We could even invite the moderators of InkscapeForum if they want to
> be involved, although most probably won't.)

Maybe we should have a vector's issue, we can talk about promoting the
forum and how to do that correctly.

Best Regards, Martin Owens



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Re: new forum, what happened? make a plan?

doctormo
On Mon, 2019-01-28 at 02:43 -0700, brynn wrote:
> Hhmm, I'm composing the new Issue, and I tried using @all.  It's
> giving me a warning that I'm adding 45 people to the discussion.
> Should I not do that? Isn't that the whole point for using @all ??

On GitLab, I'm not sure, it's not a thing I've ever tried to use. You
can probably just add Ryan, me and yourself for the GitLab issue.

If you want to use @all in rocket chat, I think that's a better place
for @all to be used. (I think they're different)

Best Regards, Martin Owens



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Re: new forum, what happened? make a plan?

Maren Hachmann
use @inkscape/vectors instead, if you want to address all vectors.

(and yes, I'm also not going to visit yet another forum - there are 6
already on my list - I'm waiting for the main forum to close first. I
also don't think the of one on the website as a serious alternative to a
proper forum in its current state.)

Maren

Am 28.01.19 um 11:24 schrieb [hidden email]:

> On Mon, 2019-01-28 at 02:43 -0700, brynn wrote:
>> Hhmm, I'm composing the new Issue, and I tried using @all.  It's
>> giving me a warning that I'm adding 45 people to the discussion.
>> Should I not do that? Isn't that the whole point for using @all ??
>
> On GitLab, I'm not sure, it's not a thing I've ever tried to use. You
> can probably just add Ryan, me and yourself for the GitLab issue.
>
> If you want to use @all in rocket chat, I think that's a better place
> for @all to be used. (I think they're different)
>
> Best Regards, Martin Owens
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
>



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Re: new forum, what happened? make a plan?

alvinpenner
as a very casual visitor to forums such as this, I have only one comment to
make:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle
The site, at a first glance, is over-designed, intimidating...

Alvin





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Re: new forum, what happened? make a plan?

Brynn
In reply to this post by Maren Hachmann
Thanks for the info.  I guess I'll skip the @.  I'm sure I had seen @all used on
gitlab before, but I'll just stick with plain English for now.

Maren, read my proposal when I post it in a few minutes.  I think it should
work.  And if we run into problems with the new forum, we can always switch over
to a php software later.

People seem to be avoiding closing of InkscapeForum.  I think there would be
some way to do it without creating resentment.  But I also think we can let
someone else do it.  Oh wait, let me just post it now, and I'll put a link here.

https://gitlab.com/inkscape/vectors/general/issues/97

brynn


-----Original Message-----
From: Maren Hachmann
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 5:56 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] new forum, what happened? make a plan?

use @inkscape/vectors instead, if you want to address all vectors.

(and yes, I'm also not going to visit yet another forum - there are 6
already on my list - I'm waiting for the main forum to close first. I
also don't think the of one on the website as a serious alternative to a
proper forum in its current state.)

Maren

Am 28.01.19 um 11:24 schrieb [hidden email]:

> On Mon, 2019-01-28 at 02:43 -0700, brynn wrote:
>> Hhmm, I'm composing the new Issue, and I tried using @all.  It's
>> giving me a warning that I'm adding 45 people to the discussion.
>> Should I not do that? Isn't that the whole point for using @all ??
>
> On GitLab, I'm not sure, it's not a thing I've ever tried to use. You
> can probably just add Ryan, me and yourself for the GitLab issue.
>
> If you want to use @all in rocket chat, I think that's a better place
> for @all to be used. (I think they're different)
>
> Best Regards, Martin Owens
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
>



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Re: new forum, what happened? make a plan?

doctormo
In reply to this post by Maren Hachmann
On Mon, 2019-01-28 at 13:56 +0100, Maren Hachmann wrote:
> I also don't think the of one on the website as a serious alternative
> to a proper forum in its current state.

Your loaded criticism is just wrong. The forum is serious, a fine
alternative and a proper forum. It's current state is good, but not
perfect.

I have checked it's design and functionality with multiple normal
people. None have had any issues. Remaining issues are so many levels
deep that I'm confident we'll be able to prioritise these paper-cuts
with more users using the site.

Best Regards, Martin Owens



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Re: new forum, what happened? make a plan?

Marc Jeanmougin

On 1/28/19 6:17 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> I have checked it's design and functionality with multiple normal
> people. None have had any issues.

We still need to keep usability high for power users, though, they are
the people making a forum "alive".

--

Mc (afk this week)





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Re: new forum, what happened? make a plan?

Brynn
In reply to this post by alvinpenner
I'm not sure which forum you're referring to.  But the new one has the fewest
features of all of them.  It does currently have many boards which aren't being
used (and that gallery archive board which I still don't understand), but I
would not expect most of them to remain, once we have the staff set up to make
decisions.

brynn

-----Original Message-----
From: alvinpenner
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 7:08 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] new forum, what happened? make a plan?

as a very casual visitor to forums such as this, I have only one comment to
make:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle
The site, at a first glance, is over-designed, intimidating...

Alvin





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Re: new forum, what happened? make a plan?

Brynn
In reply to this post by doctormo
I think that comparing the new forum to other forum software, such as SMF or
phpBB - well, there's really no comparison.  Those are fully featured forum
wares which have been developed over many, many years, and are quite
sophisticated.  They provide every feature which anyone wanting to run a forum
might ever want or need.  (with emphasis on "might ever")

But do we really need every feature?  If we look the history of the old forum
and at only the features which members actually use, and depend on day to day,
the "new" forum has all those features.  (as much as the 3 of us have been able
to remember).  I don't think our community needs all of them - at least we never
have needed them yet.

I don't see any reason not to give the new forum a try.  If after some time (5
days or 5 years), we realize there's a need for some new feature, and for some
reason it can't be added, all those sophisticated wares will still be available
for us.  We can always switch over to one of them.

Well anyway, that's my perspective.

brynn

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 10:17 AM
To: Inkscape User Community
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] new forum, what happened? make a plan?

On Mon, 2019-01-28 at 13:56 +0100, Maren Hachmann wrote:
> I also don't think the of one on the website as a serious alternative
> to a proper forum in its current state.

Your loaded criticism is just wrong. The forum is serious, a fine
alternative and a proper forum. It's current state is good, but not
perfect.

I have checked it's design and functionality with multiple normal
people. None have had any issues. Remaining issues are so many levels
deep that I'm confident we'll be able to prioritise these paper-cuts
with more users using the site.

Best Regards, Martin Owens



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Re: new forum, what happened? make a plan?

alvinpenner
In reply to this post by Brynn
I was referring to https://inkscape.org/forums/ .
I saw a screen that looked like this: forums.png
<http://inkscape.13.x6.nabble.com/file/t148043/forums.png>  
It had many more items than I had expected to see.

I spent a few minutes browsing the various items but was not able to figure
out what their purpose was.

Alvin



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