no access to Inkscape code repository on Gitlab

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no access to Inkscape code repository on Gitlab

alvinpenner
Hi,
    Is it just me, or have the permissions changed for browsing the Inkscape
code on Gitlab? I have a shortcut for accessing Inkscape:
https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape
I use this regularly just for curiosity. This link no longer works, unless I
am signed in to Gitlab, which I typically am not. Even worse, if I use this
link, and then go to the link that says:
Explore projects on GitLab.com (no login needed)
I find that the Inkscape project no longer exists. That is to say, many
Inkscape-related projects are found, but Inkscape itself does not exist or
cannot be found.

just checking,
Alvin



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Re: no access to Inkscape code repository on Gitlab

alvinpenner
hmm, the problem has magically disappeared.

sorry for the noise,
Alvin



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Re: no access to Inkscape code repository on Gitlab

Mattia Rizzolo
No magic involved, earlier today the repository had a visibility of "internal", now somebody flipped a switch and it's now "public".

On Sun, 14 Jan 2018, 5:15 p.m. alvinpenner, <[hidden email]> wrote:
hmm, the problem has magically disappeared.

sorry for the noise,
Alvin



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Re: no access to Inkscape code repository on Gitlab

Bryce Harrington-3
That was me, sorry.  Been fiddling with the gitlab settings to tighten
permissions up a bit.  Wasn't sure how it would impact non-logged in
users, so thanks for the quick feedback.

Bryce

On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 04:19:54PM +0000, Mattia Rizzolo wrote:

> No magic involved, earlier today the repository had a visibility of
> "internal", now somebody flipped a switch and it's now "public".
>
> On Sun, 14 Jan 2018, 5:15 p.m. alvinpenner, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > hmm, the problem has magically disappeared.
> >
> > sorry for the noise,
> > Alvin
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sent from: http://inkscape.13.x6.nabble.com/Inkscape-Dev-f2781808.html
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > _______________________________________________
> > Inkscape-devel mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
> >

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel


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Re: no access to Inkscape code repository on Gitlab

Patrick Storz
FYI I filed a bug for the issue (or at least an issue) I found during this:
https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/issues/42022

Not sure if this is what you hit Bryce (group level should be unaffected
but a project level the UI for the setting to allow requesting access is
broken).

Regards,
Eduard


Am 14.01.2018 um 18:21 schrieb Bryce Harrington:

> That was me, sorry.  Been fiddling with the gitlab settings to tighten
> permissions up a bit.  Wasn't sure how it would impact non-logged in
> users, so thanks for the quick feedback.
>
> Bryce
>
> On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 04:19:54PM +0000, Mattia Rizzolo wrote:
>> No magic involved, earlier today the repository had a visibility of
>> "internal", now somebody flipped a switch and it's now "public".
>>
>> On Sun, 14 Jan 2018, 5:15 p.m. alvinpenner, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> hmm, the problem has magically disappeared.
>>>
>>> sorry for the noise,
>>> Alvin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent from: http://inkscape.13.x6.nabble.com/Inkscape-Dev-f2781808.html
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Inkscape-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Inkscape-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel


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Re: no access to Inkscape code repository on Gitlab

Bryce Harrington-3
On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 07:30:14PM +0100, Eduard Braun wrote:
> FYI I filed a bug for the issue (or at least an issue) I found during this:
> https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/issues/42022
>
> Not sure if this is what you hit Bryce (group level should be unaffected but
> a project level the UI for the setting to allow requesting access is
> broken).

Thanks for filing it, yes that sounds exactly like the hitch that I hit.
Guessing that maybe toggling the project to internal, unchecking it, and
toggling back to public somehow fixed it, because the checkbox is
visible there now.

Thanks muchly for investigating it.

Bryce

> Regards,
> Eduard
>
>
> Am 14.01.2018 um 18:21 schrieb Bryce Harrington:
> >That was me, sorry.  Been fiddling with the gitlab settings to tighten
> >permissions up a bit.  Wasn't sure how it would impact non-logged in
> >users, so thanks for the quick feedback.
> >
> >Bryce
> >
> >On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 04:19:54PM +0000, Mattia Rizzolo wrote:
> >>No magic involved, earlier today the repository had a visibility of
> >>"internal", now somebody flipped a switch and it's now "public".
> >>
> >>On Sun, 14 Jan 2018, 5:15 p.m. alvinpenner, <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >>>hmm, the problem has magically disappeared.
> >>>
> >>>sorry for the noise,
> >>>Alvin
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>Sent from: http://inkscape.13.x6.nabble.com/Inkscape-Dev-f2781808.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>>engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> >>>Inkscape-devel mailing list
> >>>[hidden email]
> >>>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
> >>>
> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> >>Inkscape-devel mailing list
> >>[hidden email]
> >>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: cannot submit new issue to the Inkscape project

Antonio Ospite
In reply to this post by Bryce Harrington-3
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 09:21:33 -0800
Bryce Harrington <[hidden email]> wrote:

> That was me, sorry.  Been fiddling with the gitlab settings to tighten
> permissions up a bit.  Wasn't sure how it would impact non-logged in
> users, so thanks for the quick feedback.
>

Hi,

maybe related to this: I am not able to create new issues for the
"inkscape" project.

When visiting https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape/issues/new I get
"404 - The page could not be found or you don't have permission to view
it.".

Creating issues for other projects (e.g. lib2geom) seems to work.

I am regularly logged in to gitlab and I don't have special
permissions for any Inkscape repository on gitlab.

Ciao,
   Antonio

--
Antonio Ospite
https://ao2.it
https://twitter.com/ao2it

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
   See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

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Re: cannot submit new issue to the Inkscape project

Maren Hachmann
Hi Antonio,

issues for the Inkscape project are handled at launchpad:

Bug list:
https://bugs.launchpad.com/inkscape

Make new report:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+filebug

Bug report info on website:
https://inkscape.org/en/contribute/report-bugs/

You need to register with Ubuntu One.

Maren

Am 17.01.2018 um 17:39 schrieb Antonio Ospite:

> On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 09:21:33 -0800
> Bryce Harrington <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> That was me, sorry.  Been fiddling with the gitlab settings to tighten
>> permissions up a bit.  Wasn't sure how it would impact non-logged in
>> users, so thanks for the quick feedback.
>>
>
> Hi,
>
> maybe related to this: I am not able to create new issues for the
> "inkscape" project.
>
> When visiting https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape/issues/new I get
> "404 - The page could not be found or you don't have permission to view
> it.".
>
> Creating issues for other projects (e.g. lib2geom) seems to work.
>
> I am regularly logged in to gitlab and I don't have special
> permissions for any Inkscape repository on gitlab.
>
> Ciao,
>    Antonio
>


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Re: cannot submit new issue to the Inkscape project

Antonio Ospite
On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 19:01:19 +0100
Maren Hachmann <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Antonio,
>
> issues for the Inkscape project are handled at launchpad:
>
> Bug list:
> https://bugs.launchpad.com/inkscape
>
> Make new report:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+filebug
>
> Bug report info on website:
> https://inkscape.org/en/contribute/report-bugs/
>
> You need to register with Ubuntu One.
>

Thanks for the remainder Maren.

I knew about the launchpad pages but I didn't check the "Report Bugs"
page before asking, I just assumed that since the code was on gitlab,
new bug reports had to be filed there too. My bad.

Ciao ciao,
   Antonio

--
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https://ao2.it
https://twitter.com/ao2it

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
   See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

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Re: cannot submit new issue to the Inkscape project

Maren Hachmann
Am 17.01.2018 um 19:46 schrieb Antonio Ospite:

> On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 19:01:19 +0100
> Maren Hachmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Antonio,
>>
>> issues for the Inkscape project are handled at launchpad:
>>
>> Bug list:
>> https://bugs.launchpad.com/inkscape
>>
>> Make new report:
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+filebug
>>
>> Bug report info on website:
>> https://inkscape.org/en/contribute/report-bugs/
>>
>> You need to register with Ubuntu One.
>>
>
> Thanks for the remainder Maren.
>
> I knew about the launchpad pages but I didn't check the "Report Bugs"
> page before asking, I just assumed that since the code was on gitlab,
> new bug reports had to be filed there too. My bad.
>
> Ciao ciao,
>    Antonio
>

No problem. Yes, the bugs didn't move along with the code. There has
been a little bit of discussion about this, but a decision about moving
them / removing them / archiving them / keeping them on lp ... hasn't
been made.

Maren

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Re: cannot submit new issue to the Inkscape project

Bryce Harrington-3
On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 11:23:34PM +0100, Maren Hachmann wrote:

> Am 17.01.2018 um 19:46 schrieb Antonio Ospite:
> > On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 19:01:19 +0100
> > Maren Hachmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Antonio,
> >>
> >> issues for the Inkscape project are handled at launchpad:
> >>
> >> Bug list:
> >> https://bugs.launchpad.com/inkscape
> >>
> >> Make new report:
> >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+filebug
> >>
> >> Bug report info on website:
> >> https://inkscape.org/en/contribute/report-bugs/
> >>
> >> You need to register with Ubuntu One.
> >>
> >
> > Thanks for the remainder Maren.
> >
> > I knew about the launchpad pages but I didn't check the "Report Bugs"
> > page before asking, I just assumed that since the code was on gitlab,
> > new bug reports had to be filed there too. My bad.
> >
> > Ciao ciao,
> >    Antonio
> >
>
> No problem. Yes, the bugs didn't move along with the code. There has
> been a little bit of discussion about this, but a decision about moving
> them / removing them / archiving them / keeping them on lp ... hasn't
> been made.

If anyone feels motivated to put some time into moving this forward,
let me know.  The next steps are analytical -- essentially requirements
gathering, and assembling a listing of questions that need researched.

Should we move bugs to gitlab?  Or stick with Launchpad?  Or investigate
other bug systems?  Or something else completely?

There's several different constituencies with differing needs that'll
need to be balanced.  It'd be great if we could find a plan that works
well for bug reporters, triagers, and developers.

Bryce







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Re: cannot submit new issue to the Inkscape project

doctormo
Add also the question: Should we have one system for users and another
for developers?

There are pros and cons to a split, but if we have a technical issues
tracker on gitlab and a user focused needs tracker somewhere else. I
could see the benefits.

Best Regards, Martin Owens

On Wed, 2018-01-17 at 17:01 -0800, Bryce Harrington wrote:

> let me know.  The next steps are analytical -- essentially
> requirements
> gathering, and assembling a listing of questions that need
> researched.
>
> Should we move bugs to gitlab?  Or stick with Launchpad?  Or
> investigate
> other bug systems?  Or something else completely?
>
> There's several different constituencies with differing needs that'll
> need to be balanced.  It'd be great if we could find a plan that
> works
> well for bug reporters, triagers, and developers.

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Re: cannot submit new issue to the Inkscape project

john cliff-2
If we do move them can we get back to separate categories of bugs and feature requests like we had on sourceforge before we went to launchpad? I know we have blueprints on there too, but they always seemed over complicated for simple stuff.
Never liked the way launchpad merged them.

Cheers

John

On 18 Jan 2018 3:57 pm, "Martin Owens" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Add also the question: Should we have one system for users and another
for developers?

There are pros and cons to a split, but if we have a technical issues
tracker on gitlab and a user focused needs tracker somewhere else. I
could see the benefits.

Best Regards, Martin Owens

On Wed, 2018-01-17 at 17:01 -0800, Bryce Harrington wrote:
> let me know.  The next steps are analytical -- essentially
> requirements
> gathering, and assembling a listing of questions that need
> researched.
>
> Should we move bugs to gitlab?  Or stick with Launchpad?  Or
> investigate
> other bug systems?  Or something else completely?
>
> There's several different constituencies with differing needs that'll
> need to be balanced.  It'd be great if we could find a plan that
> works
> well for bug reporters, triagers, and developers.

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Re: cannot submit new issue to the Inkscape project

Marc Jeanmougin
Agreed, we can have two separate trackers for bugs and
requests/whishlist (not necessarily on different platforms)

As for the platform, I'd rather move the bugs to gitlab and keep most
things in a single integrated platfotm; but the main problem remains the
import and triaging of existing bugs, some of which having some
information in them sometimes (cf "bugs" thread from october).

--
Mc


On 01/18/2018 05:05 PM, John Cliff wrote:

> If we do move them can we get back to separate categories of bugs and
> feature requests like we had on sourceforge before we went to launchpad?
> I know we have blueprints on there too, but they always seemed over
> complicated for simple stuff.
> Never liked the way launchpad merged them.
>
> Cheers
>
> John
>
> On 18 Jan 2018 3:57 pm, "Martin Owens" <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     Add also the question: Should we have one system for users and another
>     for developers?
>
>     There are pros and cons to a split, but if we have a technical issues
>     tracker on gitlab and a user focused needs tracker somewhere else. I
>     could see the benefits.
>
>     Best Regards, Martin Owens
>
>     On Wed, 2018-01-17 at 17:01 -0800, Bryce Harrington wrote:
>     > let me know.  The next steps are analytical -- essentially
>     > requirements
>     > gathering, and assembling a listing of questions that need
>     > researched.
>     >
>     > Should we move bugs to gitlab?  Or stick with Launchpad?  Or
>     > investigate
>     > other bug systems?  Or something else completely?
>     >
>     > There's several different constituencies with differing needs that'll
>     > need to be balanced.  It'd be great if we could find a plan that
>     > works
>     > well for bug reporters, triagers, and developers.
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>     engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>     [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>     <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
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Re: cannot submit new issue to the Inkscape project

Bryce Harrington-3
In reply to this post by doctormo
On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 10:56:12AM -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
> Add also the question: Should we have one system for users and another
> for developers?
>
> There are pros and cons to a split, but if we have a technical issues
> tracker on gitlab and a user focused needs tracker somewhere else. I
> could see the benefits.

From what I've seen of how our users interact with the bug tracker, this
is certainly the direction I'm leaning.  We discussed this a fair bit at
the last Vectors team meeting, and hope to see some refinement of this
approach.

However, at this stage I think we should keep all cards on the table,
and focus on brainstorming and analysis.  There's a number of different
stakeholders, and it'd be too easy to jump to a solution that ends up
being a poor fit for many (or too challenging to get implemented).

Do we have a wiki page setup for discussing/brainstorming bug tracker
ideas?  Maybe that'd be a good starting point?

Bryce

> Best Regards, Martin Owens
>
> On Wed, 2018-01-17 at 17:01 -0800, Bryce Harrington wrote:
> > let me know.  The next steps are analytical -- essentially
> > requirements
> > gathering, and assembling a listing of questions that need
> > researched.
> >
> > Should we move bugs to gitlab?  Or stick with Launchpad?  Or
> > investigate
> > other bug systems?  Or something else completely?
> >
> > There's several different constituencies with differing needs that'll
> > need to be balanced.  It'd be great if we could find a plan that
> > works
> > well for bug reporters, triagers, and developers.

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Re: cannot submit new issue to the Inkscape project

Bryce Harrington-3
In reply to this post by john cliff-2
On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 04:05:23PM +0000, John Cliff wrote:
> If we do move them can we get back to separate categories of bugs and
> feature requests like we had on sourceforge before we went to launchpad? I
> know we have blueprints on there too, but they always seemed over
> complicated for simple stuff.
> Never liked the way launchpad merged them.

Yes, and I've heard this stated from a number of others too.

While moving to launchpad from sourceforge was a benefit, conflating
these two types of issues was a drawback.  The loss of being able to
prioritize feature requests as we'd done in SF was particularly
unfortunate.

I had high hopes for the Blueprints system, but frankly the design was
flawed and the implementation of it never really evolved or even kept up
with other advancements in LP.  It had potential, but I have a lengthy
list of changes I would like to have seen to make it useful to us.

Ideally, I would love to have an entirely separate system for organizing
feature requests.  It would allow us to prioritize and refine the ideas,
organize them into project lists for GSoC and the like, feed into our
Roadmap, facilitate crowdsourced funding, and stimulate development
activities.

Anyway, all cards on the table for now, but I do suspect splitting these
apart is going to be on everyone's must-have list.  :-)

Bryce

> Cheers
>
> John
>
> On 18 Jan 2018 3:57 pm, "Martin Owens" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Add also the question: Should we have one system for users and another
> > for developers?
> >
> > There are pros and cons to a split, but if we have a technical issues
> > tracker on gitlab and a user focused needs tracker somewhere else. I
> > could see the benefits.
> >
> > Best Regards, Martin Owens
> >
> > On Wed, 2018-01-17 at 17:01 -0800, Bryce Harrington wrote:
> > > let me know.  The next steps are analytical -- essentially
> > > requirements
> > > gathering, and assembling a listing of questions that need
> > > researched.
> > >
> > > Should we move bugs to gitlab?  Or stick with Launchpad?  Or
> > > investigate
> > > other bug systems?  Or something else completely?
> > >
> > > There's several different constituencies with differing needs that'll
> > > need to be balanced.  It'd be great if we could find a plan that
> > > works
> > > well for bug reporters, triagers, and developers.
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > ------------------
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> > Inkscape-devel mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
> >

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Re: cannot submit new issue to the Inkscape project

Patrick Storz
Am 18.01.2018 um 21:45 schrieb Bryce Harrington:
Anyway, all cards on the table for now, but I do suspect splitting these
apart is going to be on everyone's must-have list.  :-)

I keep repeating myself in this respect but *if* we are to split issues and feature requests in my opinion it's also an absolute must-have to be able to easily move stuff between those.
  • It happens all the time that a "bug" turns out to be simply a limitation of the software so it effectively becomes a feature request.
  • Also people sometimes report a feature request and it turns out the feature already exists but is broken, turning it into a bug.
  • Last but not least there are the reports in between which basically ask for changed functionality because the current logic is flawed (at least to some) - it's not even possible in those cases to clearly define wether it's a feature request or a bug report or neither of those because it needs discussion.

As an example I could imagine having a separate GitLab project like "inkscape-features" so we could easily move issues between "/inkscape" and "/inkscape-features" as necessary.

Obviously if we were able to win enough active bug wranglers for the project who could take the responsibility to scour through all the requests and reorganize them accordingly there *could* be two separate systems but given the desolate state of our current bugtracker I don't think it's a realistic option.

Regards,
Eduard


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Re: cannot submit new issue to the Inkscape project

Bryce Harrington-3
On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 10:12:16PM +0100, Eduard Braun wrote:

> Am 18.01.2018 um 21:45 schrieb Bryce Harrington:
> >Anyway, all cards on the table for now, but I do suspect splitting these
> >apart is going to be on everyone's must-have list.  :-)
>
> I keep repeating myself in this respect but *if* we are to split issues and
> feature requests in my opinion it's also an absolute must-have to be able to
> easily move stuff between those.
>
>  * It happens all the time that a "bug" turns out to be simply a
>    limitation of the software so it effectively becomes a feature request.
>  * Also people sometimes report a feature request and it turns out the
>    feature already exists but is broken, turning it into a bug.
>  * Last but not least there are the reports in between which basically
>    ask for changed functionality because the current logic is flawed
>    (at least to some) - it's not even possible in those cases to
>    clearly define wether it's a feature request or a bug report or
>    neither of those because it needs discussion.

I tend to agree, but have to acknowledge that there's a risk of putting
too much burden on end-users to select where to report their feedback,
when they may simply not know enough to make that determination.  Or at
least may not feel comfortable with it.

Part of the argument of the two-layer approach would be to address this
by having a one-stop-shop inbox that is friendly and suitable for
non-technical users.  And then a second layer where the individual items
are broken out into more technically detailed repositories which are
sensibly grouped in ways that are more manageable for triagers and
developers.

So yeah, being able to move things easily from the friendly 1st-layer
inbox into the appropriate 2nd-layer is critically important (if it's
hard to move things, no one will bother and it'll be piles of fail).

> As an example I could imagine having a separate GitLab project like
> "inkscape-features" so we could easily move issues between "/inkscape" and
> "/inkscape-features" as necessary.

Having everything contained on the one platform would likely have some
benefit to it.  gitlab's trackers also allow defining tags and stuff
per-tracker, so we could have the bug tracker have bug-oriented tagging
and a feature tracker with feature-oriented tagging.

A question in my mind is what the workflow for feature requests should
be, and if that workflow can be modeled appropriately within gitlab.

But this is a good idea and should be considered further.

> Obviously if we were able to win enough active bug wranglers for the project
> who could take the responsibility to scour through all the requests and
> reorganize them accordingly there *could* be two separate systems but given
> the desolate state of our current bugtracker I don't think it's a realistic
> option.

Yes, there's a fair point there.

Bug triage is a considerable amount of work - largely invisible, often
thankless.  If the rate of incoming bugs is high, it can also be an
overwhelming job.  So approaches that depend on human labor to process
bugs or that facilitate an increase in incoming data is going to
exacerbate the situation.  Approaches that can eliminate or automate
processing steps would help.  Approaches that shift the work to the
reporter may help the triage problem but risk creating other problems.

For the two-layer system I've been mentioning, this in particular is a
big risk, since the translation of issue from the first layer to the
second would involve a significant amount of processing work, that isn't
really automatable.  My thought here is to structure it to be
crowd-sourced - in other words, the external layer is messaged to be
community-driven with community members earning rights to manage the
content.  I'm imagining something akin to StackExchange, or the old
Ubuntu Brainstorm site.  But with the advanced members being empowered
to escalate items into the 2nd-level system.

With a strongly crowd-sourced 1st layer, then our triage staffing
commitments would be just for the 2nd-level systems.  There'll be fewer
items there and they'd be higher quality so the workload would be
smaller and easier.

I know a lot of companies used tiered tech support, this is basically
the same approach, just with tier-1 being run and managed by the
external community rather than the Inkscape project itself.


I wrote up a conceptual blue-sky user story for the last Vectors team
meeting:

    https://gitlab.com/inkscape/vectors/general/uploads/5fd013b6e716f16ccc85f8620d49bbdf/friendly_feedback.txt

There's a bit more discussion about bug tracking ideas here:

    https://gitlab.com/inkscape/vectors/general/issues/23

Bryce

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Re: cannot submit new issue to the Inkscape project

Patrick Storz

Two quick comments:


Am 19.01.2018 um 01:40 schrieb Bryce Harrington:
I tend to agree, but have to acknowledge that there's a risk of putting
too much burden on end-users to select where to report their feedback,
when they may simply not know enough to make that determination.  Or at
least may not feel comfortable with it.
That's exactly why I think it's essential to have an easy possibility to move reports around as needed (i.e. let end-users try to make their best guess but without putting any pressure on them) and let more experienced folk sort out the reports which ended up in the wrong tracker.
Good example is GitLab itself: They have three trackers (GitLab EE, GitLab CE and gitlab.com) and I never now where to report anything, so I make my best guess and report away - until now almost always somebody moved the bug according to whatever internal guidelines they have (I have no idea what they are but I feel perfectly fine with not caring ;-) ).

Part of the argument of the two-layer approach would be to address this
by having a one-stop-shop inbox that is friendly and suitable for
non-technical users.  And then a second layer where the individual items
are broken out into more technically detailed repositories which are
sensibly grouped in ways that are more manageable for triagers and
developers.
Here I have to ask for a quick clarification:
  • Up to now we were discussing about splitting bugs and feature requests in this mailing list thread
  • Here you are suggesting to split "user-facing" and "developer-facing" trackers

As I assume we don't want four trackers

  • are "feature requests / user-facing" and "bugs / developer-facing" synonymous for you?
    (e.g. handle discussion/designing/prioritizing of features on the user side and only migrate bugs away from that tracker to the developer-facing tracker)?
  • or are we discussing an either/or possibility here?
    (e.g. either split features/bugs or split users/developers)

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Re: cannot submit new issue to the Inkscape project

Bryce Harrington-3
On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 02:20:46AM +0100, Eduard Braun wrote:

> Two quick comments:
>
>
> Am 19.01.2018 um 01:40 schrieb Bryce Harrington:
> >I tend to agree, but have to acknowledge that there's a risk of putting
> >too much burden on end-users to select where to report their feedback,
> >when they may simply not know enough to make that determination.  Or at
> >least may not feel comfortable with it.
> That's exactly why I think it's essential to have an easy possibility to
> move reports around as needed (i.e. let end-users try to make their best
> guess but without putting any pressure on them) and let more experienced
> folk sort out the reports which ended up in the wrong tracker.
> Good example is GitLab itself: They have three trackers (GitLab EE, GitLab
> CE and gitlab.com) and I never now where to report anything, so I make my
> best guess and report away - until now almost always somebody moved the bug
> according to whatever internal guidelines they have (I have no idea what
> they are but I feel perfectly fine with not caring ;-) ).
>
> >Part of the argument of the two-layer approach would be to address this
> >by having a one-stop-shop inbox that is friendly and suitable for
> >non-technical users.  And then a second layer where the individual items
> >are broken out into more technically detailed repositories which are
> >sensibly grouped in ways that are more manageable for triagers and
> >developers.
> Here I have to ask for a quick clarification:
>
>  * Up to now we were discussing about splitting bugs and feature
>    requests in this mailing list thread
>  * Here you are suggesting to split "user-facing" and
>    "developer-facing" trackers
>
> As I assume we don't want four trackers
>
>  * are "feature requests / user-facing" and "bugs / developer-facing"
>    synonymous for you?
>    (e.g. handle discussion/designing/prioritizing of features on the
>    user side and only migrate bugs away from that tracker to the
>    developer-facing tracker)?
>  * or are we discussing an either/or possibility here?
>    (e.g. either split features/bugs or split users/developers)

It's the latter.  So if both splits were done there'd be three trackers
(apologies if the ascii/unicode diagramming gets borked):


                  +-------------------+
                  | Friendly Feedback |
                  +-------------------+
                          ↓ ↑
                      Crowdsourced
                        Triaging
                        ↓      ↓
             +-----------+    +------------+
  Feature ←  |  Feature  |    |    Bug     | →  Bug
  Triager →  |  Request  |    |   Report   | ← Triager
   Team      |  Tracker  |    |   Tracker  |    Team
             +-----------+    +------------+
                        ↓      ↓
                       Developers
                       Developers
                       Developers

Bryce

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