no access to Inkscape code repository on Gitlab

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Re: cannot submit new issue to the Inkscape project

Patrick Storz
Am 19.01.2018 um 02:54 schrieb Bryce Harrington:
It's the latter.  So if both splits were done there'd be three trackers
(apologies if the ascii/unicode diagramming gets borked):


                  +-------------------+
                  | Friendly Feedback |
                  +-------------------+
                          ↓ ↑
                      Crowdsourced
                        Triaging
                        ↓      ↓
             +-----------+    +------------+
  Feature ←  |  Feature  |    |    Bug     | →  Bug
  Triager →  |  Request  |    |   Report   | ← Triager
   Team      |  Tracker  |    |   Tracker  |    Team
             +-----------+    +------------+
                        ↓      ↓
                       Developers
                       Developers
                       Developers

Thanks, sounds very reasonable!

Especially as the "Friendly Feedback" part is optional depending on whether we can make the "Crowdsourced Triaging" part work.

We could even experiment with those:
  • If we can come up with a big unified system that makes everybody happy: Great!
  • Even if this fails we could adapt that part to distribute it across many shoulders.
    For example we currently have a lot of forums / social networks / Launchpad answers / etc. - all of them could be part of the larger network with some experienced people taking on a kind of "moderator" role to feed features/bugs into the core trackers.

Eduard


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Re: cannot submit new issue to the Inkscape project

Marc Jeanmougin
In reply to this post by Bryce Harrington-3
I like this idea too, so that we know that bugs in "bug report tracker"
are actually reproducible and contain some info :)

How do you think we should proceed for our existing bugs ?

>
>
>                   +-------------------+
>                   | Friendly Feedback |
>                   +-------------------+
>                           ↓ ↑
>                       Crowdsourced
>                         Triaging
>                         ↓      ↓
>              +-----------+    +------------+
>   Feature ←  |  Feature  |    |    Bug     | →  Bug
>   Triager →  |  Request  |    |   Report   | ← Triager
>    Team      |  Tracker  |    |   Tracker  |    Team
>              +-----------+    +------------+
>                         ↓      ↓
>                        Developers
>                        Developers
>                        Developers
>
> Bryce

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Re: cannot submit new issue to the Inkscape project

doctormo
In reply to this post by Patrick Storz

> >                   +-------------------+
> >                   | Friendly Feedback |
> >                   +-------------------+
> >                           ↓ ↑
> >                       Crowdsourced
> >                         Triaging
> >                         ↓      ↓
> >              +-----------+    +------------+
> >   Feature ←  |  Feature  |    |    Bug     | →  Bug
> >   Triager →  |  Request  |    |   Report   | ← Triager
> >    Team      |  Tracker  |    |   Tracker  |    Team
> >              +-----------+    +------------+
> >                         ↓      ↓
> >                        Developers
> >                        Developers
> >                        Developers

If the Feature and Bug report trackers are on GitLab, I think a
friendly feedback / crowd triaging app could be made to talk their API
with medium difficulty.

If I were to craft one, I'd probably make it a separate project. If one
already exists, then we could set that up localhost or staging to test
it out.

But I'd like to make sure any existing system isn't designed to be the
principle bug tracker firstly.
 
Best Regards, Martin Owens

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Re: cannot submit new issue to the Inkscape project

Bryce Harrington-3
On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 11:43:23AM -0500, Martin Owens wrote:

>
> > >                   +-------------------+
> > >                   | Friendly Feedback |
> > >                   +-------------------+
> > >                           ↓ ↑
> > >                       Crowdsourced
> > >                         Triaging
> > >                         ↓      ↓
> > >              +-----------+    +------------+
> > >   Feature ←  |  Feature  |    |    Bug     | →  Bug
> > >   Triager →  |  Request  |    |   Report   | ← Triager
> > >    Team      |  Tracker  |    |   Tracker  |    Team
> > >              +-----------+    +------------+
> > >                         ↓      ↓
> > >                        Developers
> > >                        Developers
> > >                        Developers
>
> If the Feature and Bug report trackers are on GitLab, I think a
> friendly feedback / crowd triaging app could be made to talk their API
> with medium difficulty.
>
> If I were to craft one, I'd probably make it a separate project. If one
> already exists, then we could set that up localhost or staging to test
> it out.
>
> But I'd like to make sure any existing system isn't designed to be the
> principle bug tracker firstly.

Yes that, plus making sure there isn't already something off the shelf
that could be put to the task with a bit of glue code.  (I know of
nothing offhand, but the FOSS world is large and this is not a
particularly unusual need.)

Bryce



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Re: cannot submit new issue to the Inkscape project

Maren Hachmann
In reply to this post by Bryce Harrington-3
Am 18.01.2018 um 21:30 schrieb Bryce Harrington:
> Do we have a wiki page setup for discussing/brainstorming bug tracker
> ideas?  Maybe that'd be a good starting point?

Now we have:

http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Bug_Reporting_Workflow

Maren

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Re: cannot submit new issue to the Inkscape project

Patrick Storz
Am 22.02.2018 um 02:25 schrieb Maren Hachmann:
Am 18.01.2018 um 21:30 schrieb Bryce Harrington:
Do we have a wiki page setup for discussing/brainstorming bug tracker
ideas?  Maybe that'd be a good starting point?
Now we have:

http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Bug_Reporting_Workflow

Maren

Wow, nice!

It reads a bit biased against Launchpad (which in many cases is justified but in others not really a platform issue but something we also need to figure out for whatever new service we might choose) but certainly catches the core points perfectly.

I'm not sure where discussion is meant to happen going forward (discussion on Wiki talk pages seems to be non-existing in the Inkscape Wiki), but two items I think I settled with myself in the meantime are:
  • Filing Inkscape bugs at https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape/issues and creating a (curated) feature tracker as a separate project (e.g. https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-features/issues)  sounds like a good option.
    Having a separate project for features could allow to make use of GitLab's wiki features / simple markdown files / snippets / the repository itself to develop and visualize the ideas until they are in a ready state for developers to work on (which should be indicated by a tag)
  • Importing bugs from Launchpad in an automated way does not make sense. One of the core points we're trying to solve is that the old tracker is flooded with unclear/incomplete/untriaged bugs - automatically migrating them to the new platform will make it even worse (by disconnecting the original authors) and achieve nothing but moving all platform issues we have with Launchpad, too.
    If we want to import old bugs it needs to be done manually (e.g. have the "Bug Triager" team from the sketch work on evaluating the old bugs starting at the high importance bugs working their way down - a highly non-trivial and exhausting task).
    A possibility to gather help (make the "crowdsource triaging part" work) and to determine which bugs are still worth looking at might be to post automated messages at all bugs explaining the tracker is being closed down and all issues which still persist in the current Inkscape Version (give download links) should be re-evaluated (explain how to test) and submitted to the new "friendly feedback hub" for triaging (include guidelines on how to "write a good bug report").

Best Regards,
Eduard


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Re: cannot submit new issue to the Inkscape project

Maren Hachmann
Am 23.02.2018 um 01:47 schrieb Eduard Braun:

> Am 22.02.2018 um 02:25 schrieb Maren Hachmann:
>> Am 18.01.2018 um 21:30 schrieb Bryce Harrington:
>>> Do we have a wiki page setup for discussing/brainstorming bug tracker
>>> ideas?  Maybe that'd be a good starting point?
>> Now we have:
>>
>> http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Bug_Reporting_Workflow
>>
>> Maren
>
> Wow, nice!

- Thanks :) I hope it's going to help us move forward with that topic,
although it's not really a fun/rewarding topic to start with, as it
entrails a lot of work, has a high potential for too much discussion.
Hopefully it's not going to be a lot of trial and error.

> It reads a bit biased against Launchpad (which in many cases is
> justified but in others not really a platform issue but something we
> also need to figure out for whatever new service we might choose) but
> certainly catches the core points perfectly.

- As for the bias, I think that's because I was listing current
problems, and our current platform is launchpad... So, of course, the
problems will have to do a great deal with launchpad...

But the page is not static, you can improve the texts. I think it would
be very beneficial if the people who are most affected by a change in
that system (i.e. devs) would make their needs and wants clear, possibly
on that page.
It's good to have the vectors team thinking about bug filing templates
and welcoming workflows and to have a documentation person write up a
summary of issues, but we cannot reasonably do anything without devs.

> I'm not sure where discussion is meant to happen going forward
> (discussion on Wiki talk pages seems to be non-existing in the Inkscape
> Wiki), but two items I think I settled with myself in the meantime are:
>
>   * Filing Inkscape bugs at https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape/issues
>     and creating a (curated) feature tracker as a separate project (e.g.
>     https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-features/issues)  sounds like a
>     good option.
>     Having a separate project for features could allow to make use of
>     GitLab's wiki features / simple markdown files / snippets / the
>     repository itself to develop and visualize the ideas until they are
>     in a ready state for developers to work on (which should be
>     indicated by a tag)
>   * Importing bugs from Launchpad in an automated way does not make
>     sense. One of the core points we're trying to solve is that the old
>     tracker is flooded with unclear/incomplete/untriaged bugs -
>     automatically migrating them to the new platform will make it even
>     worse (by disconnecting the original authors) and achieve nothing
>     but moving all platform issues we have with Launchpad, too.
>     If we want to import old bugs it needs to be done manually (e.g.
>     have the "Bug Triager" team from the sketch work on evaluating the
>     old bugs starting at the high importance bugs working their way down
>     - a highly non-trivial and exhausting task).

- We'd need a whole hackfest *month* dedicated to it... And then, I'm
afraid, nobody would come, it's not fun to sort through old bugs... And
it's not a task that any one group can do alone - devs of all
specializations, users, testers etc. would all be needed to help. Even
if we could get 20 persons to work on it, there'd still be 240 bugs per
person... 10 a day - mmh, that sounds almost doable. Bugathon, anyone?...

>     A possibility to gather help (make the "crowdsource triaging part"
>     work) and to determine which bugs are still worth looking at might
>     be to post automated messages at all bugs explaining the tracker is
>     being closed down and all issues which still persist in the current
>     Inkscape Version (give download links) should be re-evaluated
>     (explain how to test) and submitted to the new "friendly feedback
>     hub" for triaging (include guidelines on how to "write a good bug
>     report").

- That would be another way to do it. Advantage: no or very little work
for us and a 'clean slate', Disadvantage: lots of info lost, users
annoyed (unless someone can explain it to users in a really, really good
way).

Kind Regards,
 Maren

> Best Regards,
> Eduard
>


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