using a group for a clipping path

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using a group for a clipping path

Brynn
Hi Friends,
        It's just come to my attention that it's possible to use a group as a
clipping path.  Should that be possible?

        If so, don't the multiple objects have the potential to cause trouble,
if the file becomes very large and/or complex?  I mean, if nothing else, it
certainly has the potential to add unwanted or unneeded weight to the file.

        Just on observation, it's not possible to edit the clipping path, when a
group is used.  In my simple test, the green clipping path is only showing
around one of the objects in the group.  And it's displaced.

        There's an SVG file attached to this message:
https://forum.inkscapecommunity.com/index.php?topic=1160.0

        The silly distorted face is a group which is ready to be used to clip
the dark blue rectangle.  So you can see that it does work to use a group for a
clipping path.  And if you switch to the Node tool after that (and enable the
clip path button), you can see that the smile path is displaced, and is the only
part of the group which is showing as the clipping path.

        Is all this expected behavior?  What legitimate purpose is there, for
using a group as a clipping path?

        I've always gone to such pains (apparently) to use a single path for
clipping.  I guess if a group can be used, then a compound path, with mutliple
subpaths could be used as well?  I just don't understand why it's possible.

        Thanks for comments.

brynn


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Re: using a group for a clipping path

Brynn
Ooohh, I think I just figured it out!

It would be a legitimate use, to have a group of objects styled with gradients
and/or filters, to create a complex mask.  So maybe the ability just carries
over to clipping, sort of naturally.

Is that it?

Thanks again,
brynn

-----Original Message-----
From: brynn
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2018 11:40 PM
To: Inkscape User Community
Subject: [Inkscape-user] using a group for a clipping path

Hi Friends,
        It's just come to my attention that it's possible to use a group as a
clipping path.  Should that be possible?

        If so, don't the multiple objects have the potential to cause trouble,
if the file becomes very large and/or complex?  I mean, if nothing else, it
certainly has the potential to add unwanted or unneeded weight to the file.

        Just on observation, it's not possible to edit the clipping path, when a
group is used.  In my simple test, the green clipping path is only showing
around one of the objects in the group.  And it's displaced.

        There's an SVG file attached to this message:
https://forum.inkscapecommunity.com/index.php?topic=1160.0

        The silly distorted face is a group which is ready to be used to clip
the dark blue rectangle.  So you can see that it does work to use a group for a
clipping path.  And if you switch to the Node tool after that (and enable the
clip path button), you can see that the smile path is displaced, and is the only
part of the group which is showing as the clipping path.

        Is all this expected behavior?  What legitimate purpose is there, for
using a group as a clipping path?

        I've always gone to such pains (apparently) to use a single path for
clipping.  I guess if a group can be used, then a compound path, with mutliple
subpaths could be used as well?  I just don't understand why it's possible.

        Thanks for comments.

brynn


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C R
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Re: using a group for a clipping path

C R
I don't see any reason to limit what can be used as a mask. Some people probably think using a clone as a mask is too complex, but it's an awesome time saver when making ui element mockups, and I use it all the time.

Flexibility and robustness make Inkscape an incredible vector power tool. If using groups as clipping masks were causing some major problem there might be reason to take it out. But I don't think we should artificially keep Inkscape from doing complex things if it's handling it well enough. :) 

My 2p.


On Tue, 29 May 2018, 09:31 brynn, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ooohh, I think I just figured it out!

It would be a legitimate use, to have a group of objects styled with gradients
and/or filters, to create a complex mask.  So maybe the ability just carries
over to clipping, sort of naturally.

Is that it?

Thanks again,
brynn

-----Original Message-----
From: brynn
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2018 11:40 PM
To: Inkscape User Community
Subject: [Inkscape-user] using a group for a clipping path

Hi Friends,
        It's just come to my attention that it's possible to use a group as a
clipping path.  Should that be possible?

        If so, don't the multiple objects have the potential to cause trouble,
if the file becomes very large and/or complex?  I mean, if nothing else, it
certainly has the potential to add unwanted or unneeded weight to the file.

        Just on observation, it's not possible to edit the clipping path, when a
group is used.  In my simple test, the green clipping path is only showing
around one of the objects in the group.  And it's displaced.

        There's an SVG file attached to this message:
https://forum.inkscapecommunity.com/index.php?topic=1160.0

        The silly distorted face is a group which is ready to be used to clip
the dark blue rectangle.  So you can see that it does work to use a group for a
clipping path.  And if you switch to the Node tool after that (and enable the
clip path button), you can see that the smile path is displaced, and is the only
part of the group which is showing as the clipping path.

        Is all this expected behavior?  What legitimate purpose is there, for
using a group as a clipping path?

        I've always gone to such pains (apparently) to use a single path for
clipping.  I guess if a group can be used, then a compound path, with mutliple
subpaths could be used as well?  I just don't understand why it's possible.

        Thanks for comments.

brynn


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Re: using a group for a clipping path

Brynn
No, I'm not suggesting to limit anything.  I just saw it used (for the first
time) and was surprised, when I tested and found it worked.  I'd never seen it
before, and didn't know it would work.  And then I had to wonder what its
purpose is, because where I saw it used, it didn't seem to have any real
purpose.

Does it add weight to the file?  Let's say we have a group of 5.  Let's say 4
smaller objects inside a larger circle.  If the file isn't very large, there's
probably nothing to worry about.

But what if it was a group of 98, and many objects had filters (blurs) and
gradients too, all inside the circle.  What if we needed 8 or 9 of these
clipping path/groups?  Wouldn't that add considerable weight to the file, to
duplicate that whole group to use as a clipping path, when you just really need
the larger circle?

Or being a group, does it add very little to the file's size?  Are all those
gradients and filters sort of hidden from being counted as part of the size?

I always strive to have a lean and clean file, without any unneeded bloat (and I
also suggest that to others when I provide support) because when people are
doing things like file conversions, or exporting to gcode or cutters, or
importing somewhere else, or even using extensions, that's when all these
unneeded things, defs, bloat, excessive nodes, forgotten transparency, etc.etc.
can start to cause problems.

Maybe you haven't had the pleasure of trying to untangle the problem in a
massive file from a newbie, haha.  But I just want to know whether using a group
as a clipping path can cause that kind of problem.  Or not so much?

I'm just trying to understand.

Thanks,
brynn

-----Original Message-----
From: C R
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 10:27 AM
To: Inkscape User Community
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] using a group for a clipping path


I don't see any reason to limit what can be used as a mask. Some people probably
think using a clone as a mask is too complex, but it's an awesome time saver
when making ui element mockups, and I use it all the time.

Flexibility and robustness make Inkscape an incredible vector power tool. If
using groups as clipping masks were causing some major problem there might be
reason to take it out. But I don't think we should artificially keep Inkscape
from doing complex things if it's handling it well enough. :)

My 2p.



On Tue, 29 May 2018, 09:31 brynn, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ooohh, I think I just figured it out!

It would be a legitimate use, to have a group of objects styled with gradients
and/or filters, to create a complex mask.  So maybe the ability just carries
over to clipping, sort of naturally.

Is that it?

Thanks again,
brynn

-----Original Message-----
From: brynn
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2018 11:40 PM
To: Inkscape User Community
Subject: [Inkscape-user] using a group for a clipping path

Hi Friends,
        It's just come to my attention that it's possible to use a group as a
clipping path.  Should that be possible?

        If so, don't the multiple objects have the potential to cause trouble,
if the file becomes very large and/or complex?  I mean, if nothing else, it
certainly has the potential to add unwanted or unneeded weight to the file.

        Just on observation, it's not possible to edit the clipping path, when a
group is used.  In my simple test, the green clipping path is only showing
around one of the objects in the group.  And it's displaced.

        There's an SVG file attached to this message:
https://forum.inkscapecommunity.com/index.php?topic=1160.0

        The silly distorted face is a group which is ready to be used to clip
the dark blue rectangle.  So you can see that it does work to use a group for a
clipping path.  And if you switch to the Node tool after that (and enable the
clip path button), you can see that the smile path is displaced, and is the only
part of the group which is showing as the clipping path.

        Is all this expected behavior?  What legitimate purpose is there, for
using a group as a clipping path?

        I've always gone to such pains (apparently) to use a single path for
clipping.  I guess if a group can be used, then a compound path, with mutliple
subpaths could be used as well?  I just don't understand why it's possible.

        Thanks for comments.

brynn


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C R
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Re: using a group for a clipping path

C R
If a user is creating a massively complex file accidentally with a
graphics powertool intended for professional work, then there may be
some unavoidable learning involved. But learning is good for the mind,
and knowing boundaries can be more powerful than imposing artificial
limitations.

The same can be said for very simple things - turning up the blur too
high, applying too many filters at once... there are lots of
non-complex things that would also yield bad results in the same
regard. It's part of growing up as a designer - some learning and
knowing boundaries of what your machine can handle.

If no one has complained about this, I'd say it's a non-problem at this point.

-C





On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 4:18 AM, brynn <[hidden email]> wrote:

> No, I'm not suggesting to limit anything.  I just saw it used (for the first
> time) and was surprised, when I tested and found it worked.  I'd never seen
> it before, and didn't know it would work.  And then I had to wonder what its
> purpose is, because where I saw it used, it didn't seem to have any real
> purpose.
>
> Does it add weight to the file?  Let's say we have a group of 5.  Let's say
> 4 smaller objects inside a larger circle.  If the file isn't very large,
> there's probably nothing to worry about.
>
> But what if it was a group of 98, and many objects had filters (blurs) and
> gradients too, all inside the circle.  What if we needed 8 or 9 of these
> clipping path/groups?  Wouldn't that add considerable weight to the file, to
> duplicate that whole group to use as a clipping path, when you just really
> need the larger circle?
>
> Or being a group, does it add very little to the file's size?  Are all those
> gradients and filters sort of hidden from being counted as part of the size?
>
> I always strive to have a lean and clean file, without any unneeded bloat
> (and I also suggest that to others when I provide support) because when
> people are doing things like file conversions, or exporting to gcode or
> cutters, or importing somewhere else, or even using extensions, that's when
> all these unneeded things, defs, bloat, excessive nodes, forgotten
> transparency, etc.etc. can start to cause problems.
>
> Maybe you haven't had the pleasure of trying to untangle the problem in a
> massive file from a newbie, haha.  But I just want to know whether using a
> group as a clipping path can cause that kind of problem.  Or not so much?
>
> I'm just trying to understand.
>
> Thanks,
> brynn
>
> -----Original Message----- From: C R
> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 10:27 AM
> To: Inkscape User Community
> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] using a group for a clipping path
>
>
>
> I don't see any reason to limit what can be used as a mask. Some people
> probably think using a clone as a mask is too complex, but it's an awesome
> time saver when making ui element mockups, and I use it all the time.
>
> Flexibility and robustness make Inkscape an incredible vector power tool. If
> using groups as clipping masks were causing some major problem there might
> be reason to take it out. But I don't think we should artificially keep
> Inkscape from doing complex things if it's handling it well enough. :)
>
> My 2p.
>
>
>
> On Tue, 29 May 2018, 09:31 brynn, <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Ooohh, I think I just figured it out!
>
> It would be a legitimate use, to have a group of objects styled with
> gradients
> and/or filters, to create a complex mask.  So maybe the ability just carries
> over to clipping, sort of naturally.
>
> Is that it?
>
> Thanks again,
> brynn
>
> -----Original Message----- From: brynn
> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2018 11:40 PM
> To: Inkscape User Community
> Subject: [Inkscape-user] using a group for a clipping path
>
> Hi Friends,
>        It's just come to my attention that it's possible to use a group as a
> clipping path.  Should that be possible?
>
>        If so, don't the multiple objects have the potential to cause
> trouble,
> if the file becomes very large and/or complex?  I mean, if nothing else, it
> certainly has the potential to add unwanted or unneeded weight to the file.
>
>        Just on observation, it's not possible to edit the clipping path,
> when a
> group is used.  In my simple test, the green clipping path is only showing
> around one of the objects in the group.  And it's displaced.
>
>        There's an SVG file attached to this message:
> https://forum.inkscapecommunity.com/index.php?topic=1160.0
>
>        The silly distorted face is a group which is ready to be used to clip
> the dark blue rectangle.  So you can see that it does work to use a group
> for a
> clipping path.  And if you switch to the Node tool after that (and enable
> the
> clip path button), you can see that the smile path is displaced, and is the
> only
> part of the group which is showing as the clipping path.
>
>        Is all this expected behavior?  What legitimate purpose is there, for
> using a group as a clipping path?
>
>        I've always gone to such pains (apparently) to use a single path for
> clipping.  I guess if a group can be used, then a compound path, with
> mutliple
> subpaths could be used as well?  I just don't understand why it's possible.
>
>        Thanks for comments.
>
> brynn
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
>
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